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Author
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Topic: First shot from fouled barrel?
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fuzzy
PAKMAN
Member # 758
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posted December 20, 2005 07:20 AM
Hi everybody,Fuzzy here and I am branndy new to the site.So I whant to get your opinion on this subject.I know there are many views on this topic,and like everything else the opinions will vary.I have found no diffarence from clean or fouled barrels,more from cold to warm barrels.I have gone to the range with clean and dirty barrels both the only real differance I see is weather or not I have a barrel with oil in it or not.
Just asking to see how your guns shoot best.My rifles treat me just fine as far as accurecy,always one shot,one kill.
Thanks to everybody for viewing and have a safe and happy holidays season.
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Some times you just gotta say...Hmmmm
Posts: 7 | From: Chandler,Arizona | Registered: Dec 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 20, 2005 08:31 AM
Welcome to the New Huntmasters, fuzzy. Love your cartoons in the funny papers; and glad to have you on board.
reply to question: everything's relative.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31474 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted December 20, 2005 08:35 AM
Fuzzy, you are wise to come here with your questions. We can answer anything, plus.....some people here even know what they're talking about!!
My rifle does change point of impact clean to fouled barrel. My routine is to take my cleaning kit to the range with me, and after the shooting session is over give it a good cleaning. I then fire three shots off-hand at clay birds on the fifty yard line, thinking form & follow thru. I want to see those birds break thru the scope, (.223) and I don't spend a lot of time between shots. The bench rest guys cringe, but out in the real world it seems to pay off.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7584 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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fuzzy
PAKMAN
Member # 758
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posted December 20, 2005 11:45 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Its funny how picky some guns are and then others will shoot anything anyday anyway.Just an observation.
Good luck to all in the '06 season.
[ December 20, 2005, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: fuzzy ]
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Some times you just gotta say...Hmmmm
Posts: 7 | From: Chandler,Arizona | Registered: Dec 2005
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted December 20, 2005 04:43 PM
All of my rifles, ( Match and hunting ) are sighted in for a fouled barrel, cold for hunting and warm for a match.
I'll clean a barrel during a match, but I always fire a few fouling shots before I start the next relay.
I've had a barrel that shot almost 5" difference from a cold clean barrel, to a hot dirty barrel, at 100 yards.
[ December 20, 2005, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Tim Behle ]
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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2dogs
Knows what it's all about
Member # 649
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posted December 21, 2005 03:24 AM
Hey, fuzzy
I'm on my 3rd AR. The 1st 2-rifle's were Bushmaster 20" .223 cal Chrome-lined barrel V-Match.
Useing the [same ammo]. My first rifle shot better with a hot dirty barrel. The 2nd one didn't.
I'm no expert here, but have my theories, eh.
Steel, will soften & expand around 950 degrees. Perhaps [that] & barrel manufacturer I.D tolerence difference's is the culprit.
Posts: 1034 | From: central Iowa | Registered: Apr 2005
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RonDell
PAKMAN
Member # 761
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posted December 23, 2005 10:45 AM
I have a rem243 that I have to shoot a round thru before I ever go hunting. It took me two missed deer and a letter to Remington to discover that.
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Ron
Posts: 9 | From: LA | Registered: Dec 2005
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted December 23, 2005 01:11 PM
When I got my Howa all set up with the new scope this summer, I gave it a good cleaning. I mean, mirror clean thru the bore. Took it to the bench and it shot wild for the first 18 rounds. At that point, it just settled right in and has been dirty and dead on ever since. The guy that was with me said several of his rifles never see a cleaning but about once a year for the same reason. On the other hand, he's got a couple that drive tacks on a clean barrel and don't like being fouled at all. I'm not an expert on this, but I presume that much the same as any given rifle has its favorite load to shoot, it also has a particular degree of yech it prefers and it's the shooter's job to find out just how much.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 23, 2005 02:20 PM
There are many theories about a fouling shot being thrown out of the group. I tend to think that as the quality of the barrel improves, you will see less divergence, but barrels are individuals, like anything else. Know your barrel. It shouldn't be too hard to figure if your first shot from a clean barrel is out of the group....or not?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31474 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted December 24, 2005 07:40 AM
Exactly. Every barrel IS an individual, and needs to be treated as such. But like Leonard just said, it isn't hard to see how one is going to act.
This is how my .17 Predator acts. The lone hole is the first shot out of a cold clean barrel. The other hole is the next 7 shots.
It's pretty consistent about putting that first shot out of a cold clean barrel slightly to the left like that. I've heard that a lot of tactical .308's have the exact same tendency. I just ignore it, with this barrel, as that first shot isn't out of the group by enough to make any difference in the field. Then again, this barrel fouls so little, that there really isn't much point in cleaning it too often either, so I don't. Usually just once every third or fourth time it gets used, or when it has about 50 rounds on it, whichever comes first.
I have other barrels that put the first shot right in the group. Others that put it out a good bit further than the .17P does, and without any predictable pattern. Others that actually take several rounds to settle down and start drilling dots. Several that act like the .17P does, putting only the first shot out, by a little bit, in a predictable direction.
Only way to know what one does, is shoot it and find out. Easy!
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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fuzzy
PAKMAN
Member # 758
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posted December 24, 2005 02:04 PM
Thanks for all the good feedback.
Now for something a little off of the suject.
I'm getting ready to break in a new barrel.My question is while I'm doing the breakin proccess,about 35 rounds or so,can I trust the groups I get during this or is a virgin barrel not to be trusted as far as accuracy.The loads I will be using will be all at the low end of the charge weight,close to minimum.Not looking for tight groups from these loads while breaking in,just don't know if new barrels shoot strait.
Happy Holidays and HO,HO,HO
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Some times you just gotta say...Hmmmm
Posts: 7 | From: Chandler,Arizona | Registered: Dec 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 24, 2005 02:28 PM
It has been my experience that a good barrel starts that way, right off the bat; except, perhaps during a small break in period. If you have a barrel that shows a minor improvement out to the fourth decimal point after a lot of time and effort, it is never going to be a world beater no matter how many dozens of loads and bullets and different powders, etc. You can wear out a crummy barrel looking for accuracy that isn't there.
On the other hand, a good barrel is generally tolerant of your various and sundry components, assuming you are using bullets in the correct range of weight.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31474 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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