This is topic Where's Byron and Gerald? in forum Member forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.


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Posted by Baldknobber (Member # 514) on June 28, 2006, 02:40 PM:
 
What happened to Byron South and Gerald Stewart? Haven't been online much this spring, but haven't seen any of their posts lately. Always made for an interesting read. TB
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on June 29, 2006, 06:18 AM:
 
We had a post a few months ago, that some folks found offensive.

They and a few others, haven't been back since.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 29, 2006, 01:52 PM:
 
Gerald is a good friend, he has a business to run and sometimes gets caught up in message boards a little too much and then backs away. Not a lot different than other people. Whenever he decides to join in, he is welcome, and a definite asset to any discussion.

Byron interjected himself into a thread begun by Scott Huber and (I think) imagined that he was the subject when, in fact, Scott didn't even know who he was? It's here to review, on the back pages, if anyone has a mind, but these disagreements and misunderstandings are part the weakness of this means of communication.

That's about all I know, but even when people get pissed off and "leave" they usually come back and lurk now and then; so maybe one of them will see the inquiry.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on June 30, 2006, 01:11 PM:
 
Here it is:

http://www.huntmastersbbs.com/cgi/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000983#000014

I thought Wiley was insulting as Hell to Byron in that thread, myself. Transparent protestations to the contrary not withstanding.

- DAA
 

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Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on June 30, 2006, 05:52 PM:
 
Dave you are categorically and supremely articulate as hell!!! (I can't believe I just used that word!) I'm sitting here going...

"Hmmm, I've seen all of those words before many times. Why the heck can't I understand it? Hmmm, let's try re-wording it, see through protests to the opposite not included .

Smart guys always lose me!?!?
 

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Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on June 30, 2006, 09:20 PM:
 
I had a long post composed and deleted it.

Short version:

I read what Dave has to say, he's right again.
 

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Posted by The Outdoor Tripp (Member # 619) on June 30, 2006, 10:32 PM:
 
Don't much care who was right. I miss guys like Byron and Gerald. Both are treasure troves of knowledge and spiced things up a bit.

Not much spice 'round these parts anymore -- guess that's one of the risks of shitting in your own house.
 

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Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on July 01, 2006, 08:55 AM:
 
Dave, If they ever do apprehend me. I won't you and Rich as my Banisters.
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 01, 2006, 11:23 AM:
 
Ronnie, that would mean I'd have to put myself within reach of the authorities too. But for you, I'd do it!

- DAA
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on July 01, 2006, 12:54 PM:
 

quote:

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Not much spice 'round these parts anymore -- guess that's one of the risks of shitting in your own house.

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I miss them too Tripp, but I didnt know the board was dead?
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on July 01, 2006, 03:09 PM:
 
The Outdoor Tripp,
So you want to see a little spice around here?
Rich Higgins wears pink, girly looking huntin' boots! There now that orta get something started.
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on July 01, 2006, 03:21 PM:
 

quote:

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Rich Higgins wears pink, girly looking huntin' boots! There now that orta get something started.

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Hell, everyone who's ever hunted with Rich knows that.

But I keep hearing rumors, that you won't hunt with a lot of different guys, because you don't want them to know that you secretly shoot a 17 Remington as your favorite coyote rifle!
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on July 01, 2006, 03:46 PM:
 
I heard a rumor that Tim actually has a kennel full of Airedales and gives tolling demostrations....
 

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Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on July 01, 2006, 09:22 PM:
 
There may not be much spice, but there is a hell of a lot of integrity. That's a lot harder to find than spice.
 

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Posted by Raven (Member # 204) on July 01, 2006, 11:50 PM:
 
Where can I find a pair of girly pink hunting boots? Can you tell me where to find a pick gun to match too? Wonder if Louis Vaton makes camo bags?
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 02, 2006, 06:57 AM:
 
Can't help you out with the boots. But I'm sure McMillan would make you a nice pink swirl stock. And if you can get there quick, I know where you can pick up this awesome hunting rig:



- DAA
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on July 02, 2006, 08:32 AM:
 
Sorry Dave my "huntin rig" ain't for sale . Matches my boots and undies.
If I can ever get that Ole Cranky Cronk out here calling with me I'll have him wearing pink too.

[ July 02, 2006, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: Rich Higgins ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 02, 2006, 08:50 AM:
 
All this talk reminds me of onecoyote and his pantyhose...as Wil Craig used to say..."you sweet thang". Same goes for you, Rich.

Good hunting. (from Seal Beach) LB
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 02, 2006, 09:05 AM:
 
These kinds of discussions and the previous (link) are a good example of why those of us with message boards get knee deep in quarrels and disputes and wind up not being able to win, no matter what you do. Shut it down, interfere, take sides, or let it run it's course, regardless, you are going to piss somebody off.....maybe everybody? On the other hand, some people appreciate being able to sound off without fear of censorship. Some may also find it interesting to know that Wiley E lost his posting privilages for a while over that little deal.

Oh well. LB (in Seal Beach)
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on July 02, 2006, 09:22 AM:
 
Am I the only one to notice that Leonard has always referred to his various hunting rifles as his "Bag of Clubs" and now he is in a place called Seal Beach?

Bring back some nice steaks for us all Leonard!

Those who take easy offence to what goes on here on the WWW need only to go over to usenet and post an ethics question on someplace like Rec.hunting

I used to get the biggest tickle out of guys who would take easy offence to a post, then get their panties in a wad and DEMAND that everyone follow his line of thinking, or that a moderator step in and Unsubscribe him. ( Usenet has no moderators, and you are censored only by your ISP )

I think you are doing a hell of a good job here Leonard, you keep things in a nice balance. You will never get everyone in 100% agreement with everything, but you do a good job of keeping the conversations open and flowing.
 

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Posted by varmit hunter (Member # 37) on July 02, 2006, 10:16 AM:
 
This site and the way Leonard runs it reminds me of Mother Nature. The playing field gets leveled all on its own. If open and honest discussion is not you're environment you move on.

Those that remain are just like the Coyotes we take the heat, the cold, the lean and the fat, and we hang in there.

There are many protected havens for those that can't.
 

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Posted by Baldknobber (Member # 514) on July 02, 2006, 12:28 PM:
 
......"Wiley E lost his posting privileges for awhile over that little deal."

Leonard, you are a man of valor. TB
 

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Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 25, 2006, 08:28 PM:
 
Baldnobber, I lurked, I saw and I responded just like Leonard said people do. Thanks for asking. Tim was right. I did take offense. Not only at what was being said but what was being allowed.

I saw in that discussion, shades of another board where I was the subject of the scorn of some who had a burr under their saddle for me. I saw the same elements here that frustrate me greatly about this medium called bulletin boards. The flat one dimensional written word is easily misinterpreted twisted and intentionally used to foment discord. It is used to wrongly discredit and improperly represent true intentions.

As much as I like Leonard, warts and all, I chose not to frequent his board anymore for two reasons. I will list them and hope that he and the rest of you will try to understand them as they are intended. I will devote a paragraph or two to each in case anyone wants to cut and paste a quote.

(1) I disagree with the statement in this thread by Varmint Hunter that “The playing field gets leveled all on its own. If open and honest discussion is not you’re environment you move on”. The free-for-alls that Leonard allows under his stated attempt to allow “some people (to) appreciate being able to sound off without fear of censorship”, are possibly the furtherest thing from truthful and honest some of the time. This type of forum is a breeding ground for chest thumping, piling on, baiting and host of other adjectives. I believe that when it reaches the level of dishonesty and school yard tactics that one thread and others have, he should tell them to take it off the board. When it no longer deals with a legitimate issue or someone poking fun at a friend then it would have no place on my board.

This is the place where I hope Leonard has a thick skin. I suspect that he allows that kind of atmosphere because he himself enjoys and wants to be allowed to join the fracas without fear of censorship. That is his right and I would not try and deny him that, but I choose not to be a participant where that is allowed. I know exactly what Byron was experiencing because I have been a target of that myself. It may not have started out that way on Scott’s part but when it evolved to that, Leonard should have stepped in…in my humble opinion. I want honest discussion so that is why I moved on Varmint Hunter. I do not want to be a part of a Tabloid Bulletin board. That is my gift to you Leonard, the Pampass joke needs to be put to rest. Now you can remember me every time you use that in a proud way.

(2) Leonard’s correct with his statements about my time being limited. Throw in the tremendous disappointment of that occasion on top of a lawsuit and two fulltime careers and something had to give. You made this an easy choice. I say that in light of the fact that I consider many on here good friends. That should tell you the level that occasion rose to in my mind.

Let me say a word or two about Byron and Glenn. From what I can see and interpret from my reading, I think you may have it wrong on both of those guys. At least on one and possibly both. I met Byron initially on the internet. He has stopped by my office more than once in his travels through our area. We have gone out to supper on a couple of occassions. He drove out to and back from the Huntmaster Campout last year with me. We have done seminars at the same events. I think I can say that very few on this board have spent that much time with him.

I find him to be very likable. I find him to be knowledgeable on quite a variety of subjects. I find him polite, humorous and devoted to raising his kid’s right. I respect him for trying to be smart and prudent in making a better life for himself and his family. Who among us does not believe that we should have the right to change careers in mid life to make life less physical and more fun? He had the gumption to do what many on this board may sit and only wish they could do. I hope that it is not jealousy that motivates the attacks on him because he has become successful in such a short time. He has developed a following and been successful monetarily because he has given the viewing public what they want and they like him. He endears himself to enough that he is successful. What in the world could be wrong with that? If you disagree with some of his philosophies, that’s fine. You can state that in a way that builds respect in others eyes or you can do it in a way that makes me think the next thing out of your mouth is going to be Nanny Nanny Boo Boo.

As for Glenn, I just met him for the first time Saturday night. I have read a bunch of his postings today and those of others who objected to some of those postings. I have not read some, because I have not found them in the archives. Some may have been deleted already, so the jury is still out with me. I can tell you though, that at the forum that I gave everybody to be together Saturday night, I did not witness a shameful self promoter. The fact was that he was engaging, interesting, and an obvious family man. Time may tell me a different story about Glenn, but I suspect it will not venture far from what I have already perceived. If you can send me urls to some posts that the real Glenn Guess posted then bring’em on. I will hold him to the same expectation that I have for others when it comes to civility, honesty and character. I love the fact that he posts lots of pictures of him, his family and friends hunting together. I have not viewed one of them as self promotion.

Thanks for the kind words Tripp. You took the high road considering that my comments to you that day could be considered from the low road. I owe you an apology for stepping out of character. I will do that the next time we talk on the phone or face to face. Is this thread spicy enough for you?

It is tempting to get humorous to try and soften your opinion of me if this makes you uncomfortable but I won’t. I am just trying to be truthful about the reasons for my actions. I hope all of the parties from both sides of this issue will stop the Hatfield and McCoy battle. It does not represent our fraternity very well at all. I am most embarrassed for those who are looking for a forum home and decide to go elsewhere.

I will be out of the office tomorrow so please do not expect me to respond to your comments for a day or so. It is late enough here that I am going to bed.

[ September 26, 2006, 04:50 AM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on September 25, 2006, 09:37 PM:
 
Gerald,

I miss you buddy.

I wish you'd come back to posting here from time to time, your knowledge, humor and friendship are greatly missed, by myself and many others.

I don't know Glenn from Adam, we've never crossed paths, I've heard a lot from both sides of the table about him, but until he's put the screws to me, I've caught him in several outright lies or I've personally witnessed him screwing a friend, I'll try to remain neutral.

I like Byron, In fact, the only negative I can come up with him personally is that he just chatters too much. But that's a personal problem I have with anyone who can out talk a 4 year old girl with ADD, a basket of chocolate and a big mug of Espresso. Nothing against him, it seems to work for him, but my ears can't take that much.

I really enjoyed the time I've gotten to spend with you, and our time with Byron at last year's hunt.

The camp out this year will be missing a lot with out you there. I wish you would come and join us.
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on September 25, 2006, 10:11 PM:
 
Gerald, what Tim said. Wish you could make it this year.
 

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Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on September 25, 2006, 11:48 PM:
 
I've met Byron and I think he is a wonderful person too! We spoke on the phone once for about an hour or so and almost the entire conversation revolved around raising our children and our philosophies on building good character into them.

I admire Byron for doing exactly what he has done in the video world. I am a recreational predator hunter and nowhere even close to the level of expertise and experience of most everyone that frequents this board. I am self-employed and a bit entrepreneurial minded. I simply admire Byron for accomplishing his dreams! I am very proud of him and I hope that I can someday find a way to make a living doing what I love most. Being on the plains or in the mountains with camera gear or shotguns and rifles!

I admire Leonard for running the board like he does and thereby providing a real window into the thoughts of others and for being fair.

I admire Rich for his passion and dedication to understanding coyotes.

I admire Scott for his knowledge and hunting skill and know how.

I admire Tim and Dave because they are 2 peas in a pod and so very way cool!

I admire Vic because he is a legend yet humble!

I admire Lance for his flowery words and taxidermy & hunting skills. And his passion to protect the raptors!

Krusty for never giving up! And his great looking calls.

Q for his numbers and his passion to give up a little worldly wealth to surf the world looking for stuff to kill.

Jay for his Shrek doll decoy and sense of humor.

Jack for his sense of humor!!! But mostly his knowledge of not just rifles and ballistics but just about anything else that matters in this world.

NASA for his endless great stories and life experiences.

and........Holy cow I could go on for days!!!

I might too, but I like Gerald, must go to bed now!

Good night John Boy........zzzzzzzzzzzz
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 26, 2006, 12:30 AM:
 
Well, the buck does stop here. I'm ultimately responsible for what goes on, on this Board.

Gerald, I know you mean well with your post. I wish you could have had the same concern when Higgins, Cal Taylor and Vic Carlson were banned from predator masters without good reason. These guys are also fine family men, by the way. Collectively, they probably have in excess of 100 years of predator hunting experience? Compared to what, HONESTLY?

Fact is, those other boys have done some things that would piss off anybody. Hardly saints. We still have yet to understand the internectine struggles that forced Jim Champion out, on PM. Oh, and who were the main players? Anybody know? Who started threads, wrote some nasty stuff, stired the shit, and then deleted his involvement? The membership spoke? Yeah right!

Who told bald faced lies about Rich Higgins, attempting to get him kicked out of his Club? Who knows a lot less about hunting coyotes than he claims to know? And who claims to have three decades of coyote hunting experience, and is hardly 40 years old?

Well, I'm a nice family man too. I run this Board the way I see fit. I don't answer to anyone. I have a hard time shutting people down when they speak the truth, no matter if it causes some hard feelings. Yeah, I DO have to do it, from time to time, but I do not like to do it. I have had it done to me, (unfairly, I thought) and I know how it feels. So, I can't win. Somebody will be pissed off, under this policy.

Ultimately, everybody loses. I would like to correct one misconception. This is not a "Board War". It is about individuals. "Some" people keep wanting to make it into a Board War, but it is just about personalities. So, stick up for your buddy and bad mouth the other guy, if it makes you feel good.

But, hear this: I will not turn off discussion until I see fit, and will not entertain any suggestions to the contrary. These things will die a natural death. Blame me all you want; bring it on. I can take the heat.

Oh yeah, I have a thick skin, Gerald. Actually, that is not true, at all. I'm very offended. I have never said a single negative word about Gerald Stewart, and have strongly defended him on numerous occasions, going back many years. Way before anybody ever heard of bs, I might add.

Well, in any case, my conscious is clear. I believe I'm doing the right thing. LB
 

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Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 26, 2006, 06:37 AM:
 
I mispoke last night when I said I would be out of the office today. I do not leave until later this morning. I am the guy who is in the Roserum ad that talks to Abe Lincoln and the Beaver. I laid awake this morning running this problem through my head and I will state to you what I did to another this morning in an earlier email. I am in a no win situation. If I make one side happy the other will not think so kindly of me. If I make the other happy with my input I alienate the other.

That is why I struggle at times to even participate on these boards at all. It is a no win situation.

I misjudged you Leonard. I thought that I would have been afforded the same tough skin you have provided to others in similar situations. The first time I say something that is negative, I am at arms length. I did not want it to be that way at all.

You do not want this to be between boards but yours and others comments on this board consistently make it a board issue. Just look at your post. Some on the PM board are guilty of it also.

I posted this with great hesitancy because I have tried to email you several times since your wife's passing with no return response. I felt that maybe I had already offended you by my absence and that maybe you felt I should have responded to her passing as a friend should. I found out about it from another on this board a good while after the fact and felt badly that I did not find out earlier. My throat closed when I heard about that happening to you.

I can not speak for what may have been said on the PM board because I do not see behind the scenes. They probably are not saints over there either but I do have a feel that they do make some effort to not let stuff get out of hand.

The last thing I wanted to happen is get alienated from you personally. If that happens it was not my desire. I appreciate the fact that you have not ever said anything negative towards me. In fact it was your earlier comments on this thread that made me feel that my comments might be welcomed, negative or not. I don't think you intended for it to appear this way but maybe I am only welcome if my comments are only positive ones. I hope that is not the case.

When I came out to hunt with you years ago, you endeared yourself to me at breakfast that morning with our conversation about our lives and raising our sons. I cherish that converstaion greatly. I hope this one does not make that one irrelevant.

I am a person who tends to look for the positive in people not the negative. I am not always true to that, but for the most part I can overlook the negatives for a long time while enjoying the positives. I do not give up on people very easy and will not give up on our friendship.

People who always look for the negative in others and dwell on that will never have very many friends unless they fall into that Birds of Feather effect where they run only with those who revel in the negative. That tends to look cliqueish( is that spelled right?).

Well I could ramble on a great deal more but I will stop here and see if I have done myself even more damage.

[ September 26, 2006, 06:39 AM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on September 26, 2006, 07:39 AM:
 

quote:

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People who always look for the negative in others and dwell on that will never have very many friends unless they fall into that Birds of Feather effect where they run only with those who revel in the negative. That tends to look cliqueish( is that spelled right?).

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Most conflicts are negative by their very nature.
You have defended yourself and attempted to right wrongs that were done to you in court. You probably considered those to be negative experiences, but neccessary. Your opponents were probably good family men with nice wives and children. Saddam Hussein doted on his two sons. A good father. Irrelevant. I have a terrific son, but that did not stop Byron from telling either an outright lie or an inaccurate account of what he overheard in my home while he was accepting my hospitality and spending the night, to people that he new would use it to harm my son and me.
You have chosen to align yourself with Byron on this issue without having any knowledge of the origin. I am positive that you did not read the posts that led to his attack on me on PM.
Byron and RF have not had to type a single word on any thread on Huntmasters because his friends and supporters do so for him. One common hope is that this will cease and go away and yet Byron's friends cannot resist posting their opinions, based on their friendship rather than facts, and perpetuating the conflict. Doesn't seem logical.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on September 26, 2006, 07:54 AM:
 
Gerald Stewart,
I have always seen you as a true gentleman, and find it hard to imagine that you would not be welcome on this board or any other hunting related place. I believe the first time I met you was at a trapper convention in Sutton Nebraska. Your Father won the calling contest that day by blowing pup squeals on a Stewart PC-1. I am proud to have had the opportunity to meet your Father, and I am proud to have met you also.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 26, 2006, 08:59 AM:
 
Gerald, thanks for the email. I'm sure it will come in handy, one day.

Personal comment. You are always a gentleman and you are my friend, in spite of any differences; this being the first I recall?

Regarding that previous email. Hard to explain, but, it touched me. There are a number of people, to which I couldn't respond, about Nancy. I'm sorry. Maybe later?

When I think of people that do not deserve negative crap, Rich Higgins is at the top of the page. He has been attacked, both publicly and privately, for dishonorable and petty reasons. Some folks are just like that, can't help themselves. It's a charactor flaw.

Is "ignoring" these things the best way of dealing with them? If you try to make people accountable, now, it's you that is out of line? Sometimes that is the best solution. Other times, it doesn't solve the problem.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Alaskan Yoter (Member # 169) on September 26, 2006, 09:31 AM:
 
Gerald,

I'm lowely nothing on these boards, and generally just speak up when theres seems to be, or appears to be an injustice.

For the record I would like to see all these boards succeed, but I was rasied "whats good for the goose is good for the gander" Not do as I say, and not as I do types.

I have noticed on PM you are posting more frequently more then normal, not thats a bad thing but I'm curious to why your not making a public post over there in regards to, PM dropping thier suttle little jabs at Leonards board. Not to mention the selective picking and choosing of what post are deleted. PM has always been notorius for allowing post if it benefits thier agenda, be it right or wrong, and in most case only act when theres attention drawn to the fact they aren't acting at all. Then deleting post that may damage thier image, even if they are truthful and tactful.

Theres several post over there right now where moderators in so many words are encouraging a board war, but this fact hasn't been pointed out over there yet? And most of the folks being encourage seem to have only been around about a year or so, and I'm guessing don't know any better.

I don't know BS or GG, don't have any ill will against them, and I'm not part of thier bashing crew, but I do think some of BS's post on PM are politcaly motivated, and I think the board is becoming more a "I push your product you push mine" type of arena. Not so much worried about the membership as it is itself, and the number of potential customers it can draw in. Thats just my opinion.

Just a side note:

We all might look at one fella and see two different things, and you have to ask yourself, am I only seeing the side of this fella he wants me to see? The BTK killer is a great example Ask his family if he was a nice family guy, and then ask the cops and the victims families what they think?

I don't mean this to piss anyone off, but I'm sure it will. I'm just trying to convey my opinion, and like I said, in this arean I'm a Pompassknownothing.

Todd
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 26, 2006, 01:35 PM:
 
I think the older we get, the more we want to speak up when we see BS being spewed if for no other reason that to justify our mispent youth by saving some poor sap time and money and effort doing what we know will not work based on our own experiances.

And I think the younger we are, the more we want to prove that we are just as good, even better, than those who are supposed to be older and wiser, so we boast both loud and proud.

And amoungst the din, nothing gets accomplished.

We forget the simple fact that God gave us two ears and one mouth, and placed them so that whenever we encounterd another human being we were constatly reminded that we should do twice as much listening as speaking.

But then Bill Gate created Windows, and Al Gore the internet and together they said,

"We are GOD, and there is no other GOD than the Information Super Highway! Go forth and Multitask. You have two eyes, pull up two message boards. You have two hands, type on each board.

And in the end, Al Gore grew fat, Bill Gates grew rich, and communication as we once knew it...

went to hell in a hand basket.

Which is just another reason not to vote for a Democrat or a liberal.

Al
THO Game Calls

[ September 26, 2006, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: TheHuntedOne ]
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 26, 2006, 01:56 PM:
 
Al,
Your a wise man. Thats good stuff right there...

 

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Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on September 26, 2006, 02:50 PM:
 
Al, that's right up there with the best posts I've read.
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on September 26, 2006, 05:25 PM:
 
I'd like to nominate AL as the internet Guru of the Month!
 

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Posted by Cowboyvon (Member # 854) on September 26, 2006, 05:36 PM:
 
good stuff.. !
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on September 26, 2006, 07:29 PM:
 
Very profound, Al.

As for the rest of this matter, it seems to me both ironic and tragic that good men would think so little of BS and GG, yet still allow their actions serve as the divisive wedge that separates good friends. What's more important? Your relations with some of these guys that were once your friend? And all because of someone that you choose not to get along with any more? I agree that there is no one less deserving of the treatment he has gotten as Rich, but there's little chance that anyone will be swayed from their position at this point in the game. I say let it die its own death and if those guys at the other board want to keep breathing one more breath into it, then let that speak to their character.
 

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Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on September 26, 2006, 07:51 PM:
 
Oh yeah, And I admire Cal' for living the life I've always dreamed of living!

(strokety stroke stroke.) LOL
 

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Posted by John (Member # 52) on September 26, 2006, 08:30 PM:
 
It's time to do a bit of scouting and a little critter killin'.

I will soon be headed for coyote country with a handfull of mouth calls and and old e-caller.

Perhaps when I get back, things will have settled down and all can enjoy the primary objective of both boards.

Good hunting to all
Ol'John69
 

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Posted by The Outdoor Tripp (Member # 619) on September 26, 2006, 08:52 PM:
 
Crap. I knew Locohead wouldn't have a reason to admire me.

I knew it, I knew it, I just knew it.

[ September 26, 2006, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: The Outdoor Tripp ]
 

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Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 27, 2006, 12:31 PM:
 
It is not often I get to a point where I do not know what to say or how to say what I want to say. The signs of a no win situation are already showing up but I will try.

I have spent an entire evening and an entire business workday reading urls sent for posts on three different boards and writing this post. I am exasperated at how complex this whole sorry affair has become.

I never thought I could wave a wand and make it better. I now feel like our Fairy God Mothers, the Tooth Fairy, Tinkerbell or a host of other make gooders can't fix this. It is actually quite disgraceful in my mind on the part of some, disgusting on others, improper on a few and tragic for the rest.

I have come to realize that:

Using sarcasim and humor is an false front for some for others it is real.

Lots of people have a huge chip on their shoulders.

Jealousy is alive and well.

Ego's have run amuck.

Some people are absolutely shamless.

There is blame to be placed on all sides.

This format for communication sucks.

Men can be a lot like women at a tupperware party(petty jealousy and gossip).

I have learned things that I did not want to know.

The truth has been twisted, shaded, withheld, disstorted, fabricated, lost and will never fully be known to most.

I am tired of the emotional toll that these kinds of things exact on all involved.

as I read the posts, I was overcome with the feeling if the main perpetrators of this fracous could ever just get to meet each other they might actually like each other.

Hypocrisy abounds.

Factionalism is alive and well.

The Mutual Admiration Society takes care of it's own quite well.

Some who get held up by others as Gods to the calling community are actually on the wrong board.

The word Humble is not in some people's dictionaries.

Some pull the trigger much too fast.

Some are simply pot stirrers and have no real value to anyone else.

Some need to grow a little thicker skin.

Some need to take off a little bit of their crusty skin.

The term open and honest debate has been trampled on.

I am sure there are more I could list but I have lost the desire to go on for now. You guys have a value to me but not at the expense of my heart rate.
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on September 27, 2006, 03:51 PM:
 
Gerald,

Why do you have to win?

Krusty
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on September 27, 2006, 06:16 PM:
 
Gerald, good afternoon, Sir.
I spent an hour and a half on the phone with Pup this afternoon. We mended some fences and healed some rifts and ,good and gracious man that he is, he convinced me that although I admittedly have legitimate grievances he believed that I was capable of being the better man and could take the high road and let my part in this matter die a quiet death.
And then I read your post.
You, who has no involvement in the events of this matter, who has no stake nor grievances in these matters, who has no understanding of the genesis of these matters, who has publicly aligned yourself with the opposing camp, has , for some inconceiveable reason, felt compelled to throw gas on the dying embers and print and call your own a list of all the things that we three have been called and accused of over the course of the past three months.
For some reason, at this late date, you had to have your name associated with this mess and stir it back up.
Congratulations Gerald, you are a success and have kicked me off the fence.
I am deeply sorry, Pup. I told you that this wouldn't just go away. So maybe I can help it die a loud death.
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on September 27, 2006, 06:19 PM:
 
Don't do it Rich,

Stand above them with honor. Don't let them drag you down.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on September 27, 2006, 07:07 PM:
 
I think Tim's right,it's not worth it.It's like a Republican(Rich) speaking at the Democratic National Convention(P.A),no matter how right you are and how much sense you make they just can't see your side.LOL They're blinded by there own agenda.FWIW Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 27, 2006, 08:15 PM:
 
That surprises me Rich. I feel sad that you would assume so much without knowing who my comments were directed at. Many of those were derived from others rather than you.

I talked with Byron on the phone just now and some of the first words from him were "a bunch of those were for us weren't they". I am in a no win situation. But I try anyway. At least he was humble enough to acknowledge my attempt to spread the blame around.

You seem overly sensitive to some of the observationns I made, I tried to design those so they applied to everybody. Byron got it. I am dissappointed that you did not.

Judging by the tone of your threat to me, am I to assume that you will be lobbying for me to lose my posting privileges like a half a dozen others have on lost this board recently. That is occurring on a board that prides itself on Open and Honest debate. At least you were given fair warning several times and then only suspended for 30 days.....not banned. There is a big difference in my opinion. That is one of the differences that probaly influenced my gravitating to that board.

At least Leonard has acknowledged his understanding of the constraints on my time. Going on two boards is a real burden. I made a choice because of the things I mentioned before.

I got a rare good feeling in this affair when I read that you and Jim talked. I met Jim for only the second time in many years last Saturday night, and I agree with you. My perception is that he is a good person. I feel badly that I have pushed another good person off the fence. It was not my intention to do that but can only hope you will reconsider my intentions and attempts to interject my viewpoints.

You are in error to some degree about me not knowing the genesis of how this developed. I would love to hear your side of the story from you personally. I have read your words and heard the other side of the story. You deserve an audience and I am more than willing to call you on my dime to hear the story. There is plenty of blame to go around.

I have only tried to relate my feelings and opinions about why I dropped off which boils down to management philosophy of the board.I felt compelled to answer the question "Where is Gerald and Byron". I simply put the reason out there. I can not speak for Byron but I can for me. I am sorry that my reason upsets you and Leonard, but did you want me to step out of character and lie about it?

Part of what is at play in this affair is the kinds of troubles that crop up when friends start a business together or one invests money with another. I have always heard the old saying that one fast way to lose a friend is to start a business with one. Well Leonard did not start a business with me and I have not invested money but the same kinds of problems can creep in. This type of format lends itself to magnify some of the problems that can ruin relationships fast. Misunderstandings, differences in philosophy and things like those can become devisive. It is a risk that we all run by participating. It has happened in this case.

I apologize for stating things in a way that have pushed you so far. I have frineds on both sides of this issue and probably have done myself some harm with some of them.

Tim you kind of sounded like you agreed with him. I apologize to any others who may have felt that I was intentionally targeting Rich. It was not.

You want open and honest debate. I have been open and I have been honest. I hope that does not get me kicked off.

Oh and one other thing, another member very diplomatically asked why I have not objected to the jabs on the other board. I appreciate the way he asked and the tone he used to ask that. It is a very legitamate question with a simple answer. The few that I may have seen may not have risen to the level that I felt were worthy of my attention because I did not even know that much of this was going on until recently. Shots between the boards have been going on far too long, so it may have seemed unimportant to me at the time. I could have lied and played like I had not seen any but I won't.

I did not know anything about the upheaval at PM back in the spring until about the end of June. I tend to look at very few threads in only two forums over there. If the jabs were not in those particular threads I simply did not see them. I tend to only look for subjects that interest me in my effort to keep up with what is going on with my competition. I did not know about Leonards wife for some weeks after, until a mutual friend of Leonard and I felt that I should know. He has now been Banned from the board. Not simply suspended after warnings.

Enough said for now. I need some sleep.
 

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Posted by Alaskan Yoter (Member # 169) on September 27, 2006, 09:00 PM:
 
Thanks for the honest Reply Gerald. Not that I expected anything less, as your a well respected icon of the predator calling community.

I first came to this board and just lurked around reading and picking up solid information, which I still get, but over the years I have came to repsect and admire most of the fellas here for thier information, cander, fun loving spirit, direct to the point attitudes, willingness to help out, and more impotantly for being them and not what anyone else wants them to be.

After reading the replies to some of this issues going on here, it just solidifies that respect and admiration.

Thanks Fellas, and again thanks Gerald. As you are also one of the fellas I respect and admire, and not because of your name, but because of you.

Be safe,
Todd
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on September 27, 2006, 10:18 PM:
 
Don't misunderstand me Gerald. I'm not taking sides in this. I simply want this bullshit to stop before it rips any more of my friends apart.

Guys like you, Leonard, Jay and Rich have been close friends of mine for a number of years. Now I'm seeing my friends at each others throats, and it sickens me to watch it happen.

I'm beginning to look at The name Glenn Guess in the same light that I look at the name of Bill Martz. Simply because of the Arguments that get started every time one of those names gets mentioned.
 

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Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 28, 2006, 05:55 AM:
 
I agree with you Tim. If you or others can point me to Glenn's jabs at anyone over here please send me url's so I can read and make my own judgements. Some of the stuff I have read to date just does not fit with the accusations thrown at him.

I feel that even though people joke about his smaller physical stature, he has a big heart. He is fiercely loyal to friends and protective of his family. I can not fault him for that. Where I would give him counsel is in the area of diplomacy that is required if you are going to be in the public arena. He provides a service or product to the viewing public and it is very important in my mind that a person in that position should use restraint in public discussion. He may be his own worst enemy when it comes to getting back in someones face in a discussion. I wonder if he is Irish?

There is a proper place and a time for that stuff. It is different for someone who is trying to be a personality or player in the marketing end of this business. Those who do not have a stake in whether or not they offend a potential buyer of their product can lob grenades all they want. There is plenty of that going on on both boards. There are a few that do that and I think it hurts them with the potential customer viewing. Maybe they just don't care.

Even outside of that consideration, I think the debates should be civil. I am really sick of the lack of civility in our culture and society now days. I am fearful of the future we have created for our children.

I honestly feel that if most of what was initially said to each other was said across a campfire instead of in this format, the vast majority of these ugly situations would not happen.

[ September 28, 2006, 06:30 AM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
 

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Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on September 28, 2006, 07:41 AM:
 
I've kept my opinions out of this mess for 2 reasons.

1. I don't have a stake (except I like all parties involved)
2. It is almost impossible to type a thought on the matter without sounding like you are on someone's side.

So I admire Gerald for his ability to post in a calm fashion and remain diplomatic and fair to all sides! He sounds like a great friend to keep!

And Dummy Danny forgot to admire Ronnie for being an outdoor warrior inspite of his set-backs. He always has a great attitude about life and does so much more that just plugging along!
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on September 28, 2006, 07:45 AM:
 

quote:

---

That surprises me Rich. I feel sad that you would assume so much without knowing who my comments were directed at.

---

quote:

---

Judging by the tone of your threat to me, am I to assume that you will be lobbying for me to lose my posting privileges like a half a dozen others have on lost this board recently.

---

Incredible! Nowhere did I threaten you. I stated that your very timely intervention in a matter that did not concern you had convinced me that this thing will not die on it's own and that I will not be allowed to ignore it as Jim had convinced me that I should.
NEVER have I lobbied Leonard or anyone else on any board to ban you or anyone else, EVER. How did you draw that conclusion? Certainly not from anything I have ever written. I have to assume that the ouija board or crystal ball that you use is malfunctioning. (AHH the insidious sarcasm crept in. Some posts just deserve it though.)

quote:

---

I felt compelled to answer the question "Where is Gerald and Byron". I simply put the reason out there. I can not speak for Byron but I can for me. I am sorry that my reason upsets you and Leonard, but did you want me to step out of character and lie about it?

---

quote:

---

. If you or others can point me to Glenn's jabs at anyone over here please send me url's so I can read and make my own judgements.

---

Can't direct you to them. GG went back and deleted them. Apparently, in retrospect they shamed even him. Read my second post in the "Healthy Debates" thread.It addresses a couple of his jewels. I especially liked his reference to Cal, Vic and me as "three puppies following Leonard around wanting to suckle."

[ September 28, 2006, 07:51 AM: Message edited by: Rich Higgins ]
 

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Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 28, 2006, 09:41 AM:
 
Thanks for the reply Rich. Your points are well taken. You benefitted from my having just sat with a lawyer for an hour and a half on a very disturbing subject in my life and my Brain was in a fog when I read your rebuttal to my post. I actually do not want to debate that with you anymore and agree with some of your assessment as well as have no desire to counter on the ones that I dissagree with.

I will say though that, uncharacteristic to the Rich that I had known up to this point, I felt like Chris Wallace and pictured your "off the fence" threat being said with veins bulging from your neck while jabbing the notes in my lap in a very Clintonesque manner. You are not a Democrat are you?

I am in most of the afternoon after 1:00CST. I look forward to talking with you.

I had to do an edit to this thing because I did not want you to think my attempt at humor was a false front. It truly was an attempt to diffuse any more negative energy this subject is causing....really.

[ September 28, 2006, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 28, 2006, 10:16 AM:
 
An observation. I look at the comments between Rich and Gerald and they are damned near unbelievable, if you know either one, but especially if you know both.

While it is admirable to defend a friend, I can't help but think that it's also unfair. There are individuals that could stop this crap, but they don't.

To share a personal attitude, I can tell all of you that I would never expect my friend to go to bat for me, as Gerald has done. I don't think it's fair, while I have the ability to defend myself. Or, to make amends. I truly see this lack of candor as a serious charactor flaw.

If my contribution to this mess is to provide a forum for redress of greviences, I can take all the insults directed at me and Huntmasters. Don't forget, I (myself) have been taken to task on this board, and everybody had a piece of me, to the tune of several pages. At least there is a place where we can air our dirty laundry, even if it is at the expense of a few noses bent out of shape.

No, the image of Gerald and Rich at each other's throats is unthinkable, if you know these guys. They are both friends. However, I'm fully briefed, and I know that Rich has a serious grevience. What would it take for one friend to understand that the other is not a petty man; not one to be making a big deal out of nothing? You can't ask him to just get over his problem. Somebody is not being truthful, or even HONEST.

edited for spelling, please excuse.

[ September 28, 2006, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on September 28, 2006, 11:00 AM:
 

quote:

---

I will say though that, uncharacteristic to the Rich that I had known up to this point, I felt like Chris Wallace and pictured your "off the fence" threat being said with veins bulging from your neck while jabbing the notes in my lap in a very Clintonesque manner. You are not a Democrat are you?

---

Naw Gerald, not a Democrat, Libertarian. I prefer to stand on my own two hind legs and take care of me and mine.
You again call it an "off the fence " threat. Pup has a good corner post of the fence analogy. He convinced me to climb up out of the mud and get on the fence. It was said with regret and a little sadness, not anger.
Gerald if you look for the negative you will surely find it. Give me the benefit of the doubt and read all of my posts with a clear objectivity. I'm sure you will interpret them differently.
 

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Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 28, 2006, 11:17 AM:
 
At lunch, my wife and I had a discussion about what the lawyer had to say and we got cross ways with each other and the air got chilly so I came back to the office early. Maybe I can get this in before Rich calls.

[An observation. I look at the comments between Rich and Gerald and they are damned near unbelievable, if you know either one, but especially if you know both.]

It is not as bad as you make it Leonard. Reread my earlier posts and view my words as if I was standing there with a smile on my face. There…see…makes it a little different doesn’t it?

[While it is admirable to defend a friend, I can't help but think that it's also unfair. There are individuals that could stop this crap, but they don't.]

At the whole start of this thing, it was not defending a friend that motivated my dropping off the board. It was what was being done to a friend that motivated me. In my earlier posts I stated that I can not speak for Byron and I am not trying to. I am sharing observations of what is going on and giving you my opinions of how I feel about it.

[To share a personal attitude, I can tell all of you that I would never expect my friend to go to bat for me, as Gerald has done. I don't think it's fair, while I have the ability to defend myself. Or, to make amends. I truly see this lack of candor as a serious charactor flaw.]

I have never been asked to come over here and defend anyone. I don’t think anyone expected me to. Leonard for all of the references from people over here complaining about “them” not letting it go or “lobbing jabs”, I find it extremely disappointing that you keep doing that very thing. That last sentence is totally uncalled for and I have to assume that it simply a part of your personality to be unable to control yourself. It gives the appearance of a personal vendetta. Let it go. I don’t blame him for not coming back over here. Why would he want to come back into the lions den when even the board administrator is unable to be civil?

[If my contribution to this mess is to provide a forum for redress of greviences, I can take all the insults directed at me and Huntmasters. Don't forget, I (myself) have been taken to task on this board, and everybody had a piece of me, to the tune of several pages. At least there is a place where we can air our dirty laundry, even if it is at the expense of a few noses bent out of shape.]

No, I disagree with you on that point. Your contribution should not be to stoke the fires and then ban people for doing the very thing you want to do yourself. You are perfectly entitled to run the board how you want and people have the decision to make whether or not they want to participate. I chose to get off because I disagree with your philosophies for running the board. I do not hold that against our friendship. I have thought of you many times when I have commented that I have friends over “there”.

[No the image of Gerald and Rich at each other's throats is unthinkable, if you know these guys. They are both friends. However, I'm fully briefed, and I know that Rich has a serious grevience. What would it take for one friend to understand that the other is not a petty man; not one to be making a big deal out of nothing? You can't ask him to just get over his problem. Somebody is not being truthful, or even HONEST.]

No, we are not at each others throats. Have you talked to Byron Leonard? If not then you are not fully briefed. I have talked to Byron and will not be fully briefed until I talk to Rich. I have an idea what I will hear from Rich as you would if you were going to talk to Byron. It is real sticky and I hope that both parties can get past it. Got to go now.

Oh and Leonard….view what I have said as if I were standing there smiling at you.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 28, 2006, 11:37 AM:
 
Boys, (you know who you are) this continued silence is deafening.

edit: Look Gerald, whatever you want to do about participating on Huntmasters is your business. I do not see where it has much bearing of the situation, nor do I have to explain why I need to take care of abusive people, from time to time?

BS has my number, BS can "set the record straight" anytime. As can GG. You will notice that I must use vague labels because I have already been threatened with legal action; just for providing a forum, or "allowing" discussions.

[ September 28, 2006, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 28, 2006, 11:47 AM:
 
Whoa....this is getting interesting. Do you have some guys waiting in the bushes for me to hit me with urls. Bring it on. I am like the Robot Johhnny 5...INPUT give me INPUT.
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on September 28, 2006, 11:49 AM:
 
Personally, I feel like Rich, Cal, and Vic got the same kind of railroad job I did, over on PM. I just had a different conductor.

Neither case was meritted, nor fair.

quote:

---

Give me the benefit of the doubt and read all of my posts with a clear objectivity. I'm sure you will interpret them differently.

---

Gee, what if I could have gotten the same benefit, both here and on PM?

History repeats itself, again, just with different players.

Krusty
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 28, 2006, 12:04 PM:
 
Here ya go Krusty - hope this makes you feel some better



Still love ya buddy, but you left yourself wide open for that one LOL

Al
THO Game Calls

[ September 28, 2006, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: TheHuntedOne ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 28, 2006, 12:23 PM:
 
Well, it looks like you are requesting to see the evidence?

quote:

---

I have never been asked to come over here and defend anyone. I don’t think anyone expected me to. Leonard for all of the references from people over here complaining about “them” not letting it go or “lobbing jabs”, I find it extremely disappointing that you keep doing that very thing. That last sentence is totally uncalled for and I have to assume that it simply a part of your personality to be unable to control yourself. It gives the appearance of a personal vendetta. Let it go. I don’t blame him for not coming back over here. Why would he want to come back into the lions den when even the board administrator is unable to be civil?

---

quote:

---

No, I disagree with you on that point. Your contribution should not be to stoke the fires and then ban people for doing the very thing you want to do yourself. You are perfectly entitled to run the board how you want and people have the decision to make whether or not they want to participate. I chose to get off because I disagree with your philosophies for running the board. I do not hold that against our friendship. I have thought of you many times when I have commented that I have friends over “there”.

---

This is what I mean. Please do not tell me exactly what my "contribution" should be, according to your opinion. I'm one of the guys, and I will voice my opinion as I see fit, just like anyone else. I do not have to maintain a lofty position, above the fray. If that doesn't set well with you, I know what you can do....go somewhere else, like PM. I know, and appreciate (that) everybody has a choice.

I have no more to contribute here, but my opinion is that your buddies do not deserve your support.

I promise, should they come out of the weeds, I would not interject myself into the discussion, nor would I use the button. Okay, okay, if I can't help myself, I would strive mightily to be completely neutral....how's that?
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on September 28, 2006, 01:06 PM:
 
Al,

I wasn't crying, just stating my opinion.

It's a fact that my posts aren't generally taken objectively, and rarely taken as I meant them (your reply, in "common fashion" assuming I am crying, is a perfect example of that).

I actually find it ironic when Mr Higgins asks for the same objectivity he couldn't seem to muster up for me.

Maybe someone else could use that crying towel?

Krusty
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 28, 2006, 01:19 PM:
 
Sorry Krusty, I guess the towel didn't go over too well eh?

I was torn between it and the cheese. Guess I sould have gotten the cheese. It wouold have gone so much better with the whine

Al
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on September 28, 2006, 01:30 PM:
 
Krusteye, This is prolly a good time to step back out of the ring. A lot has been said on this matter & there`s a lot more to be said, none of which involves you. Don`t complicate it more than it already is. Start another thread some other day if you want to cry...I mean voice your grievences. Several of us started out having some fun with this thing but pay attention buddy, it`s beyond that point now, follow our example & let those involved do what they need to without having a heckler in the crowd.
 

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Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on September 28, 2006, 04:55 PM:
 
Rich is running point guard on this issue. I hope Vic and Cal are keeping in touch with him, at least offering some comfort. Rich is taking all the heat and trying to clear the air. I consider these three guys friends. Good friends. I don't want to see that change over something like this. Back to the sidelines.

[ September 28, 2006, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: NASA ]
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on September 28, 2006, 05:47 PM:
 
Al,

Either way, the cheese, or the towel, would not have been well accepted by me.

I don't find you funny (especially when the premise of your joke was based on false interpretation of my intent).

I love a good joke, even if I am it, your's just wasn't any good.

JD,

If my "heckling" of Mr Higgins isn't appropriate, why is it appropriate for you (and Al) to do so to me?
Two wrongs don't make a right.

I thought I made a valid point.
Mr Higgins asked for something he doesn't seem to be able to offer (and I am not the only one to whom he can't seem to offer it, imho).
I do find it humorously ironic.

Why don't you let Leonard tell me when it's time to walk away from a thread?
This ain't your board.

I actually have no grievences (anymore), just experience in a VERY similar situation.
I don't think I was out of line to say so.

Krusty
 

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Posted by The Outdoor Tripp (Member # 619) on September 28, 2006, 06:10 PM:
 
Maybe so Krusty, but this ain't the time and it ain't the place.

Reconsider JD's advice and now mine too -- sit on your hands.
 

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Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on September 28, 2006, 06:54 PM:
 
Seriously, Jeff. Resolution of the situation at hand is Priority One. OK?
 

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Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 28, 2006, 06:54 PM:
 
For those of you who might have been sitting on the edge of your chair, my phone conversation with Rich went as I thought it would. I enjoyed it a great deal and it was benefitial. He has pointed me toward some things that I will read in my quest to become informed.

Two hours is a long discussion and I was soaking it up. In a kindly way I will say that Rich is precise with his explainations and detailed in his portrayals so much so that he reminds me of the guy who, when asked what time it is, tells you how to build a watch.

Tim, I think Rich and Byron both need to be the people talking in the research sound booth in the cell phone ad for who has the longest free minutes.
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 28, 2006, 07:02 PM:
 
Krusty I was just funning you.

If you took it the wrong way, I appologize. I did not mean to hit a nerve. We have had our differences, and I had hoped those were behind us.

It was truly meant to be funny. Again, I am sorry to have offended you.

Al
 

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Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on September 28, 2006, 07:06 PM:
 
Gerald, will the fact that you become "informed" have any beneficial contribution to the outcome of this dispute? Or is this simply to satisfy your own curiosity? Just curious why you decided to be dealt into this poker game?

[ September 28, 2006, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: NASA ]
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on September 28, 2006, 07:17 PM:
 

quote:

---

Naw Gerald, not a Democrat, Libertarian. I prefer to stand on my own two hind legs and take care of me and mine.

---

In that case Rich, why don't you take a break for a few minutes, and drop down to the Political Forum. There is a post there about the Libertarian Party, and I'd appreciate your input.
 

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Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on September 28, 2006, 10:30 PM:
 
NASA,

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God."

just a humble hunch
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on September 28, 2006, 11:40 PM:
 
Al,

It did hit a nerve, and my nerves are kinda raw lately.

Apology accepted, and as asked I won't say anymore.

Krusty
 

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Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 29, 2006, 06:54 AM:
 
Good question Nasa. I am wondering now why I ever wanted to provide a reason to someone who asked a reasonable question.

It took off in a direction I did not anticipate fully. It is mainly to try and determine what the truth is for my own purposes. I feel that some of my associations in the past have been generated by some who wanted to somehow gain a degree of credibility by their association with me. In that proicess sometimes manipulation can creep in. I am such a trusting person that I generally believe people and give them the benefit of the doubt far too long. That lost me a friendship and $235,000 recently.

Having friends on both sides has an influence on my desire to seek the truth. I do not think I can solve this problem because it is controlled by variables outside of my control. Can I influence change....maybe, so I try. Am I a "self appointed mediator", I don't think so. I don't want to believe so,but......I have thought about that statement a bunch because as I relive in my mind some of the situations I have been involved in, I realize that many times I try to be a peacemaker or at least try to be a sounding board for those involved to try and help them see things rationally outside of the emotions that can blind so badly.

If there are any shrinks out there, listen to this next part and tell me if I need to spend some time on your couch. As I thought about what may have formed me that way, I thought of the times that I stood as a child with tears streaming down my face hoping and pleading for my parents to stop fighting verbally. These "fights" never came to blows and I knew that my parents loved each other, they just argued a great deal of my childhood. It was a mental hell hole.

That was alluded to one day at breakfast by my brother on a filming trip with Dad in the early 80's. I will never forget seeing the tears in my Dads eyes as he heard my brother refer to our childhood as "back in the dark ages". We were adults at that point. I have forgiven my Father for the "dark ages". I understnd him better now.

Some of the arguments were fueled by my Fathers dwelling on the negative and my mother defending her children. Dad was a hard driven man in business and his expectations were high for us. I just wanted peace and quiet. My children benefitted from that experinece because my wife and I have never had outburst of more than a few seconds, compared to the degree that my parents fought....for hours, sometimes ending only because Dad had to go on a business trip.

I think that situation may also be where I get my inclination to look for the positive in people rather than the negative. The nerds and outcasts in school always gravitated to me because I must have accepted them for the way they were...looking for the positives not the negatives.

That approach can get me in trouble and has many times because it leaves me vulnerable to the manipulators. There.........do I need help?

[ September 29, 2006, 06:56 AM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
 

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Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on September 29, 2006, 09:14 AM:
 
Gerald, thanks for the response. And I appreciate the way you delivered it. I "sort" of know you and have formed a perception of who I think you are and who you think you are. I was looking for confirmation of those perceptions.

I asked the question of you to (1) see if and how you would reply, and (2) to see if I could forcast the response you would make. I must be a pretty good judge of character, because you fulfilled my predictions. Thank you for your courtesy.
 

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Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 29, 2006, 09:33 AM:
 
Sure your name is not Kreskin or the Mighty Carnac (may have spelled those wrong).
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 29, 2006, 10:03 AM:
 
Looking for the good in people is an admirable quality. One that we can all respect.

Trying to effect change is an admirable quality as well.

But at all times we must keep in mind the old saw that says “those who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it.”

We must also realize that we cannot effect change on anyone. In order for a person to change, that person must want to change. We can be a role model, we can offer guidance, but in the end, it is not we who cause the change, it is the individual wanting to change.

Many great men have gone on great and noble quest to seek the truth.

Don Quixote comes to mind.

AL
 

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Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on September 29, 2006, 10:05 AM:
 
I wasn't trying to put words into Gerald's mouth. Sorry if it sounded that way. That was a wise reply to Nasa's question.

quote:

---

I do not think I can solve this problem because it is controlled by variables outside of my control. Can I influence change....maybe, so I try.

---

I suppose I was forgetting how hurtful grievances are and how difficult they might be to forgive.

I too am going back to my corner to stay but I felt I needed to appology to Gerald and Nasa first.
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on September 29, 2006, 10:14 AM:
 
Gerald, you have spoken with all parties concerned, you have read hours of posts by all parties concerned. Have you arrived at a conclusion? Is this long post of this morning the final result of all your research? I would respect a basic conclusion based on fact. This mornings post skirts around the entire issue like a politicians speech. Tapioca pudding. What did you conclude? Have I defamed and wronged BS or was I ambushed?
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on September 29, 2006, 10:28 AM:
 
Krusty, you`re right, I could have & should have said what I said without taking a jab at you.

Carry on gentlemen.
 

---

Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on September 29, 2006, 11:12 AM:
 
Admirable, JD.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 29, 2006, 11:12 AM:
 
I still note; the principles on one side, appear to have a representative? Gerald is a good man, with honorable intentions; but I'm still thinking that somebody needs to step up to the plate....especially if all we can expect is a group hug?
 

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Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on September 29, 2006, 12:36 PM:
 
I was afraid that this might give the appearance that I was somehow going to come to a conclusion and boldly broadcast it to the world in a public forum. Since I have stated that this was for my purpose I had hoped that expectation would not be there.

Is that what is expected of me now? That I will have to choose sides and call one wrong and the other right. People are mistaken if they think I am a representative FOR anyone other than me.

I have phone calls into a couple of people and emails to others that have not born fruit yet. I am walking out the door to go to the deer lease to work on a deer blind and try and get away for a restful weekend. I will come back to the soap opera issue on Monday. Please don't sit by the computer with expectation of a "ruling". Till later....
 

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Posted by keekee (Member # 465) on September 29, 2006, 03:08 PM:
 
Returned you e-mail Gerald. Contact info is in there, call anytime!

Brent
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 29, 2006, 03:41 PM:
 
"I was afraid that this might give the appearance that I was somehow going to come to a conclusion and boldly broadcast it to the world in a public forum. Since I have stated that this was for my purpose I had hoped that expectation would not be there." GS

Well, I don't believe anyone suggested that you must do that? Fact is, since bs and gg are keeping a low profile, it looks like they are willing to let you go to bat for them. This is what is known in legal circles are the "reasonable man" rule. LB

"Is that what is expected of me now? That I will have to choose sides and call one wrong and the other right. People are mistaken if they think I am a representative FOR anyone other than me." GS

Well, it is an honest mistake. To me, it looks like you are representing one side. However, I believe you when you say that you are not. Thanks for clarifying. And, you do not have to choose sides if that makes you uncomfortable. LB

"I have phone calls into a couple of people and emails to others that have not born fruit yet. I am walking out the door to go to the deer lease to work on a deer blind and try and get away for a restful weekend. I will come back to the soap opera issue on Monday. Please don't sit by the computer with expectation of a "ruling". Till later...." GS

Well, take your time. We don't expect a ruling anyway? That wouldn't be fair to you and potentially embarassing to others. What I'd like to see is some admission of culpability from somebody ? Of course, that takes balls, so it probably won't happen? Now, if you think I'm fanning the flames, that isn't the case. I'm just getting tired of the game. It's a dry hole. LB

edit: This just came across my desk.

18/40/60 Rule

When you're 18, you worry about what everybody is thinking of you.

When you're 40, you don't care what anybody thinks of you.

When you're 60, you realize nobody has been thinking about you, at all.

[ September 29, 2006, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on September 29, 2006, 04:43 PM:
 

quote:

---

I was afraid that this might give the appearance that I was somehow going to come to a conclusion and boldly broadcast it to the world in a public forum. Since I have stated that this was for my purpose I had hoped that expectation would not be there.

---

That is what I expected and hoped for, a mediator acceptable to both sides that would review all posts on both sides and announce a conclusion that may influence one side or the other to take the appropriate steps to resolve this.
Gerald, I apologize to you. I did what I accused you of. I inferred something that you did not imply. My mistake. I spent 2 hours on the phone believing that I was providing information to you toward that end. I had no idea that I was simply satisfying your personal curiosity.
That smacks of voyeurism and now I feel cheap and violated. There is a tear in my eye as I type this. (sob)

[ September 29, 2006, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: Rich Higgins ]
 

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Posted by Brad Norman (Member # 234) on September 29, 2006, 10:50 PM:
 
BS - Texas
GG - Texas
GS - Texas
 

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Posted by The Outdoor Tripp (Member # 619) on September 30, 2006, 06:38 AM:
 
Pretty difficult to match the pointlessness of the post above, but I'll give it a try...

Brian Bosworth - Oklahoma
Dr. Phil - Oklahoma
Rhett Bomar - Oklahoma
Pretty Boy Floyd - Oklahoma
Dennis Rodman - Oklahoma
Barry Switzer - Oklahoma

[ September 30, 2006, 06:44 AM: Message edited by: The Outdoor Tripp ]
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 30, 2006, 06:43 AM:
 
.

[ September 30, 2006, 06:54 AM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
 

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Posted by The Outdoor Tripp (Member # 619) on September 30, 2006, 06:49 AM:
 
State war Andy? Hardly. I'd have made that last post if I'd have been from Oklahoma myself.

Pointing out those three people all happen to be from Texas has no merit, is inflammatory at best given the situation, and in my opinion is totally pointless.

If there was a relevant point to the earlier post, I'd certainly love to hear it.

[ September 30, 2006, 06:59 AM: Message edited by: The Outdoor Tripp ]
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 30, 2006, 06:58 AM:
 
Hell, being from the North East, and living in NH, 3 guys from Texas could be the same thing as one from Vermont, one from NH and one from Maine.

Heck, I can drive from one end of NH to the other in 3 hours. Barrign any snow. Or state troopers

Al
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 30, 2006, 06:46 PM:
 
There are many people in the dark on this thread, and it's probably better that way?

Don't expect much in the way of further illumination.

Instead, the jungle drums carry threats of lawsuit.....once again. What a surprise!

Pretty pathetic, eh?
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 30, 2006, 07:18 PM:
 
Lawsuits? That is pathetic.

Too bad. I think the truth is whats right and should be told.

Some folks gotta hide behind their attorneys. Its their security blanket....

[ September 30, 2006, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
 

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Posted by Alaskan Yoter (Member # 169) on September 30, 2006, 09:31 PM:
 
So this whole post wasn't about right or wrong, getting both sides of the story, and mending fences?

Please don't tell me it was a one sided show, because of vested intrest? The thought of that just turns my stomach.

 

---

Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on September 30, 2006, 11:47 PM:
 
Barf bags for everybody.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 01, 2006, 12:19 AM:
 
Don't know what to tell ya, AY? I sure thought we were going to get to the bottom of it. Now, it seems that it was all a hue and cry just to satisfy a personal curiosity? It never was to (boldly) clear the air, (boldly) set the record straight, (boldly) call a spade a spade, etc........................................

Okay, I fell for it, too.

Now, psst! (from the grapevine) we even have a moderator from another board doing his level best to torpedo our campout by discouraging folks from attending. Disgustedly; I just have to ask, how can these guys sleep at night? How low can you get!

Remember, THERE WILL BE NO BOARD WAR! I will not allow it, on this end. And, I expect that concerted efforts to encourage the brain trust on a certain message board to bankroll a "personal" lawsuit, will be fruitless. LB
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on October 01, 2006, 03:21 AM:
 
NASA, pass me a bag please.....

I honestly cant believe this. Dont know what else to say. Its really discouraging that certain parties are going to come away unscathed and people are not going to know the truth about this whole thing. Terrible.

As for the mods torpedoing the campout, I dont see that happening. Anyone thats a crossposter that they get too shouldnt be there anyway, IMO. Pretty weak if you let a mod dictate what you do on your personal time. Honestly I wondered about that when the campout was first mentioned and alot of single digit posters jumped in.....
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on October 01, 2006, 06:16 AM:
 
The problem with a civil Lawsuit is that almost ALL evidence is allowed. The rules of evidence are not as strict as you see in a criminal action. If the plaintiff fails to prove the truth of his accusations, said plaintiff loses credibility with interested party's. If the plaintiff is a business man, he risks losing customers should his lawsuit fail. It is necessary for the plaintiff to be ready to prove the truth of his accusations if he wishes to stay in business.
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on October 01, 2006, 09:06 AM:
 
Rich you are right. As the attorneys say, you can sue a ham sandwich. Frivolous lawsuits are common.
However for a plaintiff to prevail in a defamation suit he must prove that the injurious statements are false and that the lies were intended to do harm. To collect damages one must show that the false statements actually caused harm.
I see no problem. Simply state fact that can be substantiated. In this case it leaves not a narrow path to be traversed, but a broad road.
One more consideration. I know a man who is in the initial stages of a somewhat similar lawsuit against a sportsman's organization. In Az. the suit must be filed in Superior Court and his up front attorney's fee was $20,000. He has used $11,000 of that so far and the case hasn't even been heard yet.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 01, 2006, 09:21 AM:
 
Shucks, that's just walking around money, when you are famous.
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on October 01, 2006, 09:26 AM:
 
My civil suit against my neighbor hasn't yet gotten that expensive. But it sure isn't cheap. The guy moved in with his new Girlfriend and every time the Deputy shows up to serve him, his Girlfriend lies and says he isn't home. With out a warrant, the Deputy can't enter the home to prove she's lying. Each wasted trip costs me.

In the meantime, this guy keeps coming out and cutting down fences and gates. Sooner or later, some Cowboy is going to catch him and shoot him. The way my luck runs, I'll be the one picked up and spending the rest of my life in a cage with a 400 pound queer room mate.
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on October 01, 2006, 10:14 AM:
 
IMHO

Well looks like someone might be suggesting a possible Slapp or at least the threat of one... Would that threat be an admission that a persons motive for being on these boards might not be just to help beginners and fellow coyote hunters increase their knowledge of coyote hunting, but rather the motive is financial?
 

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Posted by The Outdoor Tripp (Member # 619) on October 01, 2006, 12:03 PM:
 
Tim,

Try running a few hundred amps through your fence.

His girlfriend won't need to lie much longer.
 

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Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on October 01, 2006, 07:16 PM:
 
Leonard, I know an attorney that frequents this board and is a good friend of mine that could probably put an end to this talk about lawsuits right damn quick. This is ridiculous.
 

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Posted by Jack Roberts (Member # 13) on October 01, 2006, 10:22 PM:
 
Cal,
You are right. Threats of lawsuits are mostly done by those who have no idea of what they will cost and do not have the assets to pursue them.

Totall BS.

Jack
 

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Posted by yuccabush (Member # 582) on October 02, 2006, 04:17 AM:
 

quote:

---

total BS

---

I agree.
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on October 02, 2006, 07:11 AM:
 
I was told that all posts on PM are copyrighted and cannot be cut and pasted on this board. Is that true?
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on October 02, 2006, 07:20 AM:
 
That may be true Rich, but a feller could probably post a link to it.
 

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Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on October 02, 2006, 07:29 AM:
 
While I was away, the mice continued to play.

I am not happy with the way this thread developed while I was out. I had not been asked to do what everyone seemed to hope I would "self appoint" myself for. I can and will share some thoughts and perspective if that is what you would like.

I had a friend suggest this weekend that I not let my legal difficulties on another matter make me a different person. That seems like a good thing to suggest to you Rich. Do not let your anger and dissappointment change your character. I am saddened by your suggestion that I was engaged in "Voyerisem".

As I went back and reread our posts I realized that I should have said "I will be a represntative for my friends on both sides", rather than "representative for Anyone other than me". That did come across as kind of self centered, which as many of you have experienced, is not my true nature. My toilet at last years campout was for everyone's comfort not just mine.

Maybe you should not always assume the negative first Leonard. Maybe they are laying low because they are smart enough to know they can not win that discussion on your board for the very reasons I have alluded to. Possibility?

"That is what I expected and hoped for, a mediator acceptable to both sides that would review all posts on both sides and announce a conclusion that may influence one side or the other to take the appropriate steps to resolve this. Gerald, I apologize to you. I did what I accused you of. I inferred something that you did not imply. My mistake. I spent 2 hours on the phone believing that I was providing information to you toward that end. I had no idea that I was simply satisfying your personal curiosity. That smacks of voyeurism and now I feel cheap and violated."

I am sorry that you felt I was going to be the judge and jury on this. I am humbled that you would think enough of me to allow me that responsibility. Problem is I do not have the power of supoena. I can not get to the truth with only words from each side. I have heard enough to know that somebody is being dishonest with me. How do I make a fair judgement on hearsay? I want to believe you and a host of others that I felt I could trust prior to this. I am not sure I can from what I have heard so far. It is a very uncomfortable position to be in.

"BS - Texas
GG - Texas
GS - Texas"

And I am proud of it too Brad. You aren't from Southern California are you Brad. I was just wondering if it was this issue that disgusts you with me or my jabbing post back when Texas beat Southern Cal. Thanks Tripp.

"Some folks gotta hide behind their attorneys. Its their security blanket....".

Some people just don't know when to quit.

"So this whole post wasn't about right or wrong, getting both sides of the story, and mending fences?Please don't tell me it was a one sided show, because of vested intrest? The thought of that just turns my stomach."

You will have to forgive me for not being presumptious Alaskan Yoter. I feel that I could sit in a room with all of the players in this and get somewhere. I seriously question whether or not doing it in this forum will work. Trust me, I would love to be able to get the fences mended.

"Okay, I fell for it, too.Now, psst! (from the grapevine) we even have a moderator from another board doing his level best to torpedo our campout by discouraging folks from attending. Disgustedly; I just have to ask, how can these guys sleep at night? How low can you get!"

Hey Leonard, can you provide me with a url so I can see what you have referred to. I would like to confirm or dispute what you have insinuated they are doing. Somebody else able to do that?

I would strongly counsel against legal action on anybodys part in this and have done so. I also understand how a person can get pushed into something like that rightly or wrongly.

Rich, I am way past that monetary point in my effort to get my evidence in front of a Judge.

Jack, you are a wise man.

[ October 02, 2006, 07:30 AM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
 

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Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on October 02, 2006, 07:30 AM:
 
Rich, that's what I was told on another site (unrelated to this). You can provide a link to that site, but you can't cut and paste it. I haven't asked a lawyer, or looked up the laws, but that's what I've been told by someone who would be on the receiving end of the lawsuit.

Also, and maybe I'm wrong, but reading Geralds posts I took from it, from his admission, that he's gullable and easily taken by people because he looks for the good in them, not the bad. As he's stated he's relatively recently lost 6 figures being duped by someone who he trusted.

From his posts and the admissions in them I thought Gerald's "purpose" for getting in the middle of this was not for curiosity or to be a moderator, but rather from a business perspective, would they be good or unsafe to do business with.

Maybe I misunderstood Gerald's posts. There's alot of that on the net, LOL! This medium sucks in alot of ways...

later,
scruffy
 

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Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on October 02, 2006, 07:35 AM:
 
I agree with that last statement Scruffy.

It is a little of both on the "purposes" thing.
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on October 02, 2006, 08:34 AM:
 

quote:

---

I want to believe you and a host of others that I felt I could trust prior to this. I am not sure I can from what I have heard so far. It is a very uncomfortable position to be in.

---

Gerald, I will be in Williams Nov.30 and Dec1
for the World Contest.
Mike Burris, the promoter, has a retired FBI polygrapher administer tests to the winners.
I will take a polygraph to substantiate ANYTHING I have said about BS, GG and this entire affair. Be there Gerald, or appoint a delegate that you CAN trust. Pup will be there.
If I fail, I will pay the $600 to $800 fee and be publicly revealed as a liar and a fraud. If I pass you pay the fee.
The ball is in your court Gerald. What value do you place on truth?
 

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Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on October 02, 2006, 10:58 AM:
 


DO IT, Gerald!!!

Don't say you can't afford it. I will contribute the first $100 to a "Loser's Fund" just to put this issue to rest.

I would think any other "interested parties" who may or may not have a vested interest in the forthcoming revelation, and are really confident in the outcome of such a lie detector test, would rush forward with matching donations!

[ October 02, 2006, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: NASA ]
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on October 02, 2006, 11:12 AM:
 
I'll put in the second 100 bucks. Just to put this to rest.
Al

[ October 02, 2006, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: TheHuntedOne ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 02, 2006, 12:17 PM:
 

quote:

---

Hey Leonard, can you provide me with a url so I can see what you have referred to. I would like to confirm or dispute what you have insinuated they are doing. Somebody else able to do that?

GS

---

quote:

---

I was afraid that this might give the appearance that I was somehow going to come to a conclusion and boldly broadcast it to the world in a public forum. Since I have stated that this was for my purpose I had hoped that expectation would not be there.

Is that what is expected of me now? That I will have to choose sides and call one wrong and the other right. People are mistaken if they think I am a representative FOR anyone other than me.

---

quote:

---

If not then be patient and let me try to get something done.

---

 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on October 02, 2006, 02:10 PM:
 

quote:

---

I can not get to the truth with only words from each side. I have heard enough to know that somebody is being dishonest with me. How do I make a fair judgement on hearsay? I want to believe you and a host of others that I felt I could trust prior to this.

---

quote:

---

Seems like $600 would be quite small price for you to pay to have the truth known. Why do I feel so silly having to respond to this challenge?

---

quote:

---

"Some folks gotta hide behind their attorneys. Its their security blanket....".

Some people just don't know when to quit.

---

Touch a nerve?

Tim took the words out of my mouth. I would hitch my wagon on Higgins word. No doubt about it....
 

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Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on October 02, 2006, 05:41 PM:
 
Rich is correct about the polygraph format. As an ex-cop that makes sense.

For the test to be effective it would take a little advanced planning. A number of Yes/No questions would have to be solicited from both sides. The examiner would analyze these for maximum stress potential.

It will take input from both sides of this controversey to make the test viable. The advanced preparation necessary is the reason it is so expensive. An ex-CIA examiner would be considered highly qualified.

The other advantage to doing this test is, it will relieve GS of all the pressures and expectations of being a moderator which he says he never wanted to do in the first place.

But, then he will have undisputable evidence of who was being truthful and who was playing him for a sucker (once again).

Funny isn't it, how this is becoming "all about Gerald". The original players in this soap have all been upstaged, lol.
 

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Posted by Brad Norman (Member # 234) on October 02, 2006, 06:18 PM:
 
Thanks Tim. That was the point I was trying to make a few posts ago. It was not meant to be an inflammatory post, it was just stating the facts.

In my experience, a Texan will come to the aid of another Texan right or wrong.

The post became "relevant" in my mind, when the people who were "inflammed" by the post responded and they happened to be from Texas.

Tripp-You must be a football fan. If so, please remember that Rhett Bomar is from Texas and we sent his ass home. I enjoy your posts and did not intend to offend you in any manner.

Gerald-I'm from Oklahoma and was actually rooting for Texas in the Rose Bowl.

My apologies if my post made you feel as if I was disparaging your great state.

[ October 02, 2006, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: Brad Norman ]
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on October 02, 2006, 06:25 PM:
 

quote:

---

An ex-CIA examiner would be considered highly qualified.

---

You guys sure this is a Polygraph you're talking about and not Water Boarding?

Just wondering

Al
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 02, 2006, 06:39 PM:
 
Now, what am I to think, Brad? Anybody but SoCal? That's my team, you know? LB

Polygraph tests are okay for security clearances and government work, but my bs meter is the same as men have used since the beginning of time. It's highly reliable, when administered properly. Check it out.
 

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Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on October 02, 2006, 07:11 PM:
 
I've been reading with great interest and trying to keep my fingers off the keyboard, but I have to say this. Most anyone that wants to know the truth in the actions of certain others against a few here can do enough digging to find it. I know some of the posts were cleverly buried and deleted, but so what. I personally am past the point of caring about it. If someone slighted me or backstabbed me over an internet forum it is the least of my worries. Leonard, I am glad you have let this dialog remain open and I feel that Higgins has done a very good job of defending himself and his actions against some that have tried to throw him under the bus. Gerald, you are a heck of a guy, and I am glad you are here trying to ease the strain or figure out the truth (whichever the case). Higgins, I hope you don't feel that you are on your own in your defense, because some of us others also have talked to many involved and also know the truth of much of what has taken place. I know that others besides Me, Vic and Higgins have been wronged. Some way worse that I was. I just personally don't feel the need to defend myself. It will all come out in the wash eventually. As for the Arizona hunt, I may or may not be there, depending on if I find some country to hunt, but I am pretty sure I will be at Rawlins at Nationals, and at St Francis, and I'll bet that none of the Texans in question are entered at any of them.
 

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Posted by The Outdoor Tripp (Member # 619) on October 02, 2006, 07:20 PM:
 
Brad,

No offense taken, none at all -- really. I consider all you guys friends, but sometimes we've got to keep each other in line.

As for Rhett Bomar, once he crossed the state line we disowned his ass, and I believe he sent his own ass home.

I guess I really shouldn't diss OU football players too bad. After all, 90% of their starters have come from Texas for the last thirty years.

As for sticking up for our own, yes we Texans are known for that. Love us or hate us, we tend to defend our home and our brothers (although in this case I was defending no one). I'd expect nothing less from Arizonans, Oklahomans, Kansans, and so on.

Good hunting and please tell Aggy you love him while you're kicking his ass.

[ October 02, 2006, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: The Outdoor Tripp ]
 

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Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on October 02, 2006, 07:24 PM:
 

quote:

---

I will be at Rawlins at Nationals, and at St Francis, and I'll bet that none of the Texans in question are entered at any of them.

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Hmmmmmm, does the phrase "All blow and no go" have any relevance here?
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on October 02, 2006, 07:33 PM:
 
Cal, I just figured you were gainfully employed by antelope or deer hunters. I didn' know that you were excercising restraint and common sense.
You are right, there are others. I should have acknowledged Browning204 sooner. I don't know him and I never corresponded with him aside from a couple of posts on PM. Yet he was included in GG's blacklist effort for writing a post supporting the three of us.
If I can get access to a private ranch for you, will you be able to make it to Williams?
 

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Posted by The Outdoor Tripp (Member # 619) on October 02, 2006, 07:50 PM:
 
Too be honest, I'm pretty damned ignorant as to what this whole beef is about -- I have some vague ideas but not much more than that.

I do know a couple of things though. I have known Gerald Stewart for years and in all my dealings with him have found him to be a 100% stand-up guy. I have also met Rich Higgins and feel as strongly for him. I have learned a great bit reading his posts, watching his videos and listening to him talk. If there is anyone on this planet who knows more about Canis latrans I'd be shocked.

I like the polygraph idea -- I have no doubt Higgins will pass with flying colors, and to help him I'll toss in fifty bucks to see it happen.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 02, 2006, 07:53 PM:
 
Well, you do that, Higgins. And what about your other buddy? I might like to attend that hunt, if I had some decent area....up north? Oh, wait, how much does it cost? I'm on a fixed income, ya know? LB
 

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Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on October 03, 2006, 05:51 AM:
 
Yes Higgins, I have been up to my elbows in antelope (literally) for a while now, but I get to check in every few days. And yes, we are trying to find somewhere to hunt and if you can find us something that would be great. I have a couple friends that grew up here that now manage ranches down there that I am trying to find. But I am not really sure what part of Arizona they are even in.

One of the most abused parties in the whole mess of what all has taken place, strangely enough, is another Texan. And one that I like. Varmint Hunter has been on the recieving end of several wrong doings by other Texans. I personally wouldn't want him pissed at me!
 

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Posted by Gerald Stewart (Member # 162) on October 03, 2006, 06:55 AM:
 
Rich posts:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was afraid that this might give the appearance that I was somehow going to come to a conclusion and boldly broadcast it to the world in a public forum. Since I have stated that this was for my purpose I had hoped that expectation would not be there.

Is that what is expected of me now? That I will have to choose sides and call one wrong and the other right. People are mistaken if they think I am a representative FOR anyone other than me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If not then be patient and let me try to get something done.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My response: Does seem contridictory doesn't it. The reason it appears so is because my intentions and involvment have evolved as it has drawn out. My initial effort was to find out the facts of what this is all about. As it has gone on, I came to feel that maybe since so many put their trust in me to be honest and possibly help resolve it, I would pursue it at the risk of getting damaged in it myself. I am not sure why but I keep trudging on. I guess one influence could be the fact that I am trying to follow up on suggestions that Rich gave me, you know Rich, that list of names that you gave an arms length long, of people I assume you believed would corroborate your story. I am sorry that my effort to do that does not meet your time table. We all have lives to live and I have no control over how long it takes them to get back to me. The people who you gave me have given me additional names so the time required to be "FAIR" just continues to grow. I was doing it out of my effort to be fair to you, friend.

Rich:
"You obviously will never stop dancing around each and every issue of this sorry affair and I am through chasing you".

This affair is changing you into something not even you will be comfortable with. I feel sorry for you Rich.

NASA:
"If they were were as worthless as GS claims"

Norm got it Nasa. I am dissappointed you and Rich did not.

Tim:
"It's a good thing that I've become a Politically Correct type of person who ignores stereotypes, otherwise I'd have to point out the irony in having two guys from Texas, accuse a guy from Arizona of lying."

Bring it on big fella, I can take any Texas dig you can dish out. I believe that when somebody picks on them or pokes fun at them it is really because they like them deep inside or want to be like them. Bring it on.

Q:
"Gerald, you are over here on an open forum challenging nearly everything these guys have to say,

This kind of a swipe with a broad brush is one example of how the tone of a discussion could be changed with a word or two being different enabling you to get your point across without seeming to take shots at people. I do appreciate your input though.

Q:
"Why don’t you go over to PM and challenge what those parties involved have to say?".

I had to think a while on how to answer that because it is a good question. Let me try to answer that truthfully and hope that it doesn't reap more scorn and suspicion from this board.

The discussion with me started here and has continued here. I would have answered and responded to any discussion they would have wanted to have over there but it has not happened. I have communicated with some behind the scene through PM's and emails with only a couple of phone calls. A couple of people from over there that I have communicated with have been at Rich's urging. It just has not been in the public forum.

The burden on my time has been tremendous and I have not challenged people from over there to public debate because it would only increase that burden. You guys seem to revel in that so I have done it over here.

Q:
"Better yet, why don’t you set up a formal public debate on PM or here where ONLY the parties involved is allowed to post? That would eliminate all outside interferences. Everything could be brought to light and an end could be brought to this entire affair."

That actually has some merit Q and is close to what I have been trying to explore with others. We are a long way from figuring something like that out and in the end neither party may agree to what outside parties feel should happen.

Q:
"I think the reason you are here and not there is because you wouldn’t want to put your “friends” on the hot seat. Here it doesn’t matter right? You wouldn’t want to embarrass your friends on a public forum by challenging everything they have to say would you? At this point you have to know most of what is going on yet you are here not there. Why is that? Whether you know it or not it looks bad for a person of your stature to question the validity of what someone has to say."

That saddens me greatly Q. The tone of that is uncalled for and I am dissppointed you would choose that approach. This is part of that Dammned if I do Dammned if I don't phenomemnon that I mentioned real early on. Your assumptions and speculations are just plain wrong IMHO.

Q:
"If one side wants to make everything public and the other side is doing everything in there power to keep it quiet then who do you think has something to hide?"

The mention of lawsuits have been made and for those who have not ever been involved in a long chest thumping legal battle, it is brutal. Irregardless of who is right or wrong, they are brutal. I had to smile when you wrote that because of the wise words of my lawyer back in the early 90's telling me that when I am on the stand to "answer the question and only the question because loose lips sink ships".

Ask yourself the question who has the loose lips in this affair?. Them or this board?

With all of the comments questioning my efforts and loyalties coming from this board, I feel that I have to take this discussion off the boards. I will continue trying to help others on both sides who also want to see it resolved but it will be behind the scenes. I do not agree with the airing of this dirty laundery on a public forum because of the inherent negatives I have mentioned earlier.

Please feel free to email me, phone me or fax me any thoughts, comments, barbs or encouragments on this issue that you want to because I am not going to address this particular issue in this forum any longer. I don't feel it will help.

I also want to caution anyone who might feel the urge to encourage me or side with me in any way, to resist the urge to try to "pump me up" by posting in this forum. The gesture would be appreciated but I honestly feel that it breeds more resentment against me that will rear it's ugly head somewhere else down the road. I do not want any more stress or grief than this has already caused.

[ October 03, 2006, 07:03 AM: Message edited by: Gerald Stewart ]
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on October 03, 2006, 07:37 AM:
 
Good morning Gerald.
I readily admit that when you revived a dying thread you did inspire some hope of a conclusion.
I readily admit that I expected that conclusion to be more than your pity and a Rodney King quote.
I wish you well, Gerald.
 

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Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on October 03, 2006, 08:32 AM:
 
Professor, you made a viable offer to support your position. It was ignored. No counter offer was made. You offered to submit to a lie detector test. It was scorned as pointless. No counter offer was made. Are you going to try again? This stand is dry.

Rich, this sure looks like it has become nothing more than a platform for protracted hype.

Piss on it! Go get ready for the campout!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 03, 2006, 09:13 AM:
 

quote:

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The burden on my time has been tremendous and I have not challenged people from over there to public debate because it would only increase that burden. You guys seem to revel in that so I have done it over here.

GS

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Everybody has been wasting time on this trainwreck, not just Gerald Stewart . I strongly take exception to that parting shot that Huntmasters members " revel " in public debate.

Yeah, maybe so? Do you have a problem with public debate? We have members that appreciate the opportunity to speak their mind without getting banned or deleted.

I reaffirm my intent not to stoke the "board war" fires, but this is nothing more than pertinent commentary based on issues Quinton and Gerald were talking about.

I heard from the administrator of that other board a couple days ago in which he also wanted to avoid a board war. I responded and have not heard more, but now I am told (by others) that they must "debate" the matter privately before deciding on a course of action. It could be that they have a problem with discouraging "board wars"? Or maybe it is a poderous decision making process, I don't know, but I will continue to keep this situation focused on the narrow concepts involving behavior by specific people.

So, I must admit that I am disappointed that GS has bailed on us after so much ink and so little said, of substance. Very disappointed. But, on the other hand, he didn't have much to work with, if his intent was image rehabilitation, under the glare of a public forum?

But, you know, there is hope. People forget, shit dies down. Even Bill Clinton can hold his head up, as does OJ where they refine their golf game while others stick up for them.... and nobody cares about a miscarriage of justice.

"He said, she said", right? The call goes out; Spin Doctors, report for duty! See if Bill Clinton can spare one or two?

Just think about this stuff. I'm sorry but the idea that a "Lie Detector" test has no validity, if both people believe their own version of events, is simply crap. As Rich Cronk pointed out, a psychopath can pass a lie detector, as could anyone that has their own version of reality. They may sincerely believe that their shit is peanut butter, but reasonable people can figure it out with only a little taste. LB
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on October 03, 2006, 11:26 AM:
 
Rich offering to take a lie detector and offering the other party to do the same, loser pays, dearly, spoke volumes. Anyone that cant see that is not paying attention....

Oh well...
 

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Posted by J. Holly (Member # 591) on October 03, 2006, 11:49 AM:
 
I don't have a dog in this fight, nor do I want one. I feel that everyone who has a legitimate beef in this is old enough and big enough to take care of it.

My only concern here is seeing what certain issues and topics do to acquaintances and friends. I have friends on both sides of this issue, and for once, I am not involved. As a matter of fact, I am going back to the truck and I will let you all finish this stand, while I watch with a pair of binoculars.
 

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Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on October 03, 2006, 12:42 PM:
 
The guilty do not want to be judged. The innocent have nothing to hide and request judgement. Too many involved have too much monetary considerations to lose by the discreditization that will result from being outed. The result is a stalemate where the guilty can claim victory. This is Liberal politics at its best.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on October 03, 2006, 03:13 PM:
 
Discredit the few under consideration here and that board will lose two of the legs propping it up. Any wonder that the board itself and its administration are so vehemently concerned about protecting those guys and seeing to it that this issue dies as quickly as possible? They've got a deeply vested interest in not losing their own investment and "big names" are what draw newbies to the table. Whereas it oughtta be credibility and integrity, it's name recognition alone.

NASA likens it to liberal politics. How true. Bury the facts and discredit the whistleblowers so no one will listen to the truth.
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on October 03, 2006, 03:46 PM:
 
I'm gonna leave them alone until they or their familiars fire another salvo.
Until then I wanna talk about coyotes and the campout. Jeff, any chance you can catch a ride with JCross and Cajn? If you make it to the campout you will see Cdog's and Kokopelli's proxies make a porn flick with Anna.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 03, 2006, 04:49 PM:
 
Come on, Lance. Narrow scope, please.
 

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Posted by Cal Taylor (Member # 199) on October 03, 2006, 06:08 PM:
 
Aw, c'mon Higgins. Come with the heat!
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on October 03, 2006, 06:30 PM:
 
Proxies hell, that's the real deal. And I'll support a brother from Arizona by swearing to it!
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on October 03, 2006, 08:01 PM:
 
I've given my wife and my attorney advanced warning of these alleged adventures involving my "proxy". Should I suffer damages or embarassment, I'll be in touch thru counsel.

Juist make sure Tyler tells the one that looks like me to make me proud.
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on October 03, 2006, 09:28 PM:
 
Not to worry Lance. With do rag and shades no one will recognize you.
 

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