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Author
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Topic: Cal - Bowtech question for you...
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted November 30, 2006 03:40 PM
Looks like I might be able to score a new bow for Christmas this year. Haven't even shot any new ones yet, but on paper I've got it narrowed down to Hoyt or Bowtech.
That new Bowtech Guardian looks pretty cool. Nobody has them on the shelves yet though. Just wondering if you have seen it, and if so whatcha think?
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted November 30, 2006 05:28 PM
Hoyt.. ah hem'... Hoyt.
Excuse me, must be something in my throat. ![[Cool]](cool.gif) I'll now await Cal's response like everyone else...
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Buffalobob
Knows what it's all about
Member # 825
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posted November 30, 2006 08:13 PM
I take it you don't have real long arms and that you use a release and hunt from a tree stand
Posts: 90 | From: Potomac River | Registered: Mar 2006
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stevecriner
UNKNOWN-before he was famous?
Member # 892
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posted November 30, 2006 08:41 PM
I love my Bowtech Mighty mite. I get 290 out of my hunting arrow and nic,e smooth ,vibration free ,and forgiving as hell. My vote is Bowtech.
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"I love coyotes and put up with dogs....My neighbor has a slew of them."
Posts: 321 | From: missouri | Registered: Jul 2006
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted November 30, 2006 09:09 PM
"I take it you don't have real long arms and that you use a release and hunt from a tree stand "
Dunno if my arms are long or not. Never used a release, but am going to try one. I sat in a tree stand once. For about 10 minutes. That was enough tree stand hunting to last me the rest of my life, I think. I'm like that vulture in that old '70s poster "patience my ass, I'm gonna go kill something..."
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted November 30, 2006 09:10 PM
P.S... Does having short arms and not using a release and not hunting from a tree stand mean I can't buy one of these new bows?
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted December 01, 2006 05:15 AM
No, it just means he's trying to be a dickhead towards you.
Cal's at the World hunt, I don't think he will be back until Monday
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Buffalobob
Knows what it's all about
Member # 825
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posted December 01, 2006 05:20 AM
As a general rule, a finger shooter needs a decent brace height. The bow you are talking about is not as extreme such as some of the speed bows with a 6 1/2 inch brace height but 7 1/8 is too tight for me.
Short axle to axle lenght bows are trickier to shoot accurately than longer bows as a general rule and when coupled with a low brace height will/may give you finger pinch assumeing you shoot three or four fingers.
Long draw lenghts such as me who needs 31 inches only compound the problem of finger pinch.
Lots of deflex is tricky to shoot. Good to have zero or a half an inch.
A good finger shooter's bow for a walking/stalking person would have a brace height of about 7 3/4 to 8 inches with an axle to axle length of about 40 inches. This would be something similiar to a "target" or "tournament" bow. The manufacturer will use words such as "forgiving" "accurate" when describing the bow.
Having said all of that, try to undestand that most bowhunters shoot those short axled speed bows and kill deer with them but when you read their hunting stories they say they never shoot at deer more than 20 yards away. Only a very few of us who will trade blazing speed for accuracy.
Posts: 90 | From: Potomac River | Registered: Mar 2006
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Buffalobob
Knows what it's all about
Member # 825
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posted December 01, 2006 05:27 AM
No, Tim I was not being a dickhead.
Bows are like guns. The bow should be selected to fit the hunting style, physical charateristics and needs of the person.
There is what we want to buy and what we should buy.
Plus with a 31 inch drawlenght and shooting left handed with fingers I am irritated with the bow manufacturers for the very poor selection of bows that will fit me.
Posts: 90 | From: Potomac River | Registered: Mar 2006
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted December 01, 2006 05:49 AM
I'm pretty familiar with bow mechanics and geometry. Neither the Vectrix XL or the Guardian look all that radical to me, in terms of brace height or ATA. The parallel limbs are a totally different beast when comparing ATA too. The riser design of the Guardian is radical as hell, but I like the way it puts the limb pivots behind the arrow rest - lots of deflex, looks very stable in theory. I've been shooting a 7.25" brace height, deflexed riser, 38" ATA, hard cammed bow with my fingers for 10 years. The second set of limbs on the old bow are worn completely out though. So I've decided its time for a new bow. Last year my fingers started acting really wierd, basically shut me down, so I'm looking at switching to a release along with getting the new bow. Going to try a peep site for the first time ever too! Hell, I only started using a pin block five or six years ago. Before that, I shot barebow for 20 years. Kind of slow to adopt the new stuff I guess. But, going whole hog on the new one. Figure I'll even use some A/C's instead of aluminum or cedar.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted December 01, 2006 06:07 AM
Bob, I'm left handed and have the same 31" drawl length... Hoyt managed to make one for me that'll shoot 326 feet per second and I've killed two Pope & Young whitetails at over 50 yards. I have a Cybertech.
The smoothness Bob speaks of popularly comes from Hoyt and Matthews in todays market. The Bowtech is improving but continues to have what is considered a "Wall Issue" which makes it feel like the string is going to jump out of your hand at any moment when at full-drawl. Compared of course to other brands- that is an exaggerated description if not compared to other bows.
Through our business we have guided clients that carried every type of bow. Shooting competition, my brothers and I have owned several bows from each of the top name manufacturers. If it weren't for a little sibling rivalry I would probably shoot a Matthews today... upcoming contracts for my TV sponsorship may very well require me to make the change anyways.
I suggest you go to a bowshop and shoot a few different styles. You will be able to tell the difference. Shooting a bow 5 times indoors will usually only tell you one thing, how smooth it is. Matthews will win that contest everytime, Hoyt will be second and Bowtech will be third. Noticably. Judgement of speed and accuracy are going to come from more arrows at different ranges... that's where the Hoyt and Bowtech start making their comeback.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Buffalobob
Knows what it's all about
Member # 825
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posted December 01, 2006 08:26 AM
Jrbhunter
If we are just killing time here waiting on Cal to show up. I would ask what is your longest shot being as very few people will take a 50 yard shot much less make it and I do not mean to start any one upsman contest, I am just interested.
Posts: 90 | From: Potomac River | Registered: Mar 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted December 01, 2006 08:40 AM
I have never shot a Bowtech, but I know they are good. A few years ago I went to several archery shops and shot several different brands. I am a finger shooter. My main concerns at the time were finger pinch with todays short bows, and noise when they are released. These young guys at the pro shops today don't even realize how loud these new bows can be, especially when using artificial release aid. Sounds like a dang .22 rifle going off. Anyhoo, the Mathews was the quietest of all bows I had a chance to try. I still have one big complaint about these new bows of today. The sight windows are cut way too far past center. If you want to use a cushion plunger and a decent flipper rest, you will be forced to buy an expensive gizmo that extends the cushion plunger and flipper out far enough for you to achieve center-shot. What a pain in the arse. Now if I had DAA's money, here is what I would do. Once I decided which bow was best combination of stability, silence, and speed, I would then call the company and order a new bow with a custom sight window which was made for a finger shooter. OK, I am done bitching for now. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Buffalo,
There are a lot of folks who can make 50 yard shots with boring regularity. I could do it on targets myself back when I shot every day. The fact we need to remember is this----A broadside deer at 50 yards will be a disaster if said deer takes even one step forward at moment of release. My first trophy whitetail buck was taken at a range quite a bit beyond 50 yards. The buck was broadside upon release, and he made an about face when he heard the string twang. That cedar arrow made what we now call a perfect texas heart shot.
[ December 01, 2006, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: Rich ]
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted December 01, 2006 08:53 AM
Buffalobob. Normally I would agree with everything you said especially since I also have a 31" draw.
All that went out the window when I went to a Matthews. I thought no way this little short deformed bow is going to shoot for me. My dealer rigged it up and my first five arrows at thirty yards could be pulled with one hand.
Dave. I started serious bow hunting in 1962. There were no compounds. I had to be drug to the compound. Then to sights, peeps, and releases. I shot a hell of allot of three D. My Son was the junior state champion. I saw them as all gadgets and gigets. Then I started thinking of them like Jewel triggers, custom actions,etc. My scores and kills went up immensely.
PS. I took a Turkey at 42 yards, and a P & Y buck at sixty with this little bow.
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted December 01, 2006 09:03 AM
Hey varmit hunter,
I arrowed my turkey at about fifteen feet. Does that make me a better turkey caller than you? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted December 01, 2006 09:41 AM
Rich. Ever Man, Woman and Child on the face of the planet is a better Turkey caller than me.
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted December 01, 2006 09:47 AM
Bob, my 50 yard shots on whitetails remind me of a story my dad always tells. He jumped a cuvy of 9 quail and killed 6 of them with a 22 pistol. If you twist his arm he will finish the story and tell you they flew in his grandpa's tobacco barn and he shut the door behind them!
My long range archery shots do not come from deadly archery talents so much as poor decisions. My longest shot was a 190lb 9 pointer at 54 yards, he was making a scrape broadside at what I felt was 35 yards. He was watching as I drew, buck fever had taken over at this point, upon release of the arrow he jumped the string and wound up with a muzzy in his brain. The other long range trophy was 52 yards, broadside and I cut both lungs after glancing off a shoulder blade. A couple more inches and I would've never seen that hawg again- better to be lucky than good somedays.
My archery talents are less than acceptable for 50 yard plus but MANY hunters out there today can shoot those distances comfortably. My filming partner teaches long range archery classes in Alabama, he shoots 100 yard targets 3 days a week. He has taken whitetails at 77 yards and feral hogs at over 90. I have no doubts he could cleanly harvest a whitetail at 100 yards but we have yet to find outselves in a situation where the deer behavior allowed it. He shoots a Matthews.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted December 01, 2006 10:44 AM
Until three years ago I hadnt picked up a bow for fifteen years.I went out and purchased a mathews outback. It made a pretty fair shooter out of an otherwise average archer.the advancement in bow technology was astounding to me.My longest shot is 45 yards and I wouldnt have taken it had conditions not been perfect.
I probably love the mathews because I dont know any better.
Paul
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted December 01, 2006 12:19 PM
Paul Melching,
Nope. You just appreciate a good product, and there is nothing wrong with that.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted December 02, 2006 06:33 PM
DAA, i personally would go with the Bowtech. For one i think they are on the cutting edge every year with bow technology. Mathews idea of technological advancement these days is to shorten a bows ATA, add a pink string and another harmonic dampener. Hoyt is making some very good shooting bows and i have shot a handful but my money would go with Bowtech.
i have had no issues with the wall on the bowtech. it is easily modified using the draw adjustmnt screw. those that have an issue with the cam creeping on them just need to lighten the adjustment and they probably have their letoff more near 65- 70% than 75- 80%.
A little off subject here but guys that pick their bow up 2 days before the season then go on to wound 2-3 deer and complain that it is their equipment that needs fine tuning just sicken me. archery is something that takes practice and some people don't put in their time. in a game of inches and life and death you shouldn't go in unprepared. these days i see that happening more and more.
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted December 05, 2006 09:22 AM
DAA, I'm of little or no help on that bow. I haven't seen one yet. All I can report is that I am happy with the Patriot that I have been shooting for three seasons now. I think I'll stick with BowTech. Hoyt came out with the Trykon for a paralell limb setup but I guess they have had some major problems. Mathews makes some nice bows for kids, women, and old men.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 05, 2006 10:51 AM
This is a pretty interesting discussion on a subject I know almost nothing about! I do have an opinion about the tech. "improvements" etc., but I wouldn't necessarily say that I would be inclined toward a long bow or a recurve?
Now, my "experience" began at YMCA summer camp in Wisconson when I was pre-teen. To my surprise, I was a very good instinctual shooter? The best there, actually.
Fast forward to a resort in tropical Mexico, when I picked up a bow for the second time in four decades and I won the event; admitting that the competition wasn't too challenging. But, I do have that gold medal.
Maybe one day I will get an urge, and if that happens it might be another "plunge" .....if you know what I mean?
I must admit that I have some issues with hunting (versus targets) with a bow, but I don't want to start anything here . For the curious; my issues are with suffering animlas, and lost animals.
Bob, I want to give you credit for not letting us run you off. You have my respect.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31463 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted December 05, 2006 12:14 PM
Was afraid of that Cal.
I think I'm going to hold off on purchasing for another couple of months. Give it time for the new models to hit the streets and see what kind of bugs surface. If nothing else, I want to wait until the Guardians are on the racks so I can try before I buy.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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rooster32
Knows what it's all about
Member # 61
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posted December 05, 2006 08:42 PM
DAA,
I bought a new Bowtech this past summer and love it. I had an old PSE that was over 10yrs old. There is no comparison to these new bows. I had it down between a Mathews and Bowtech. This fall was a warm-up to an archery elk hunt in WY that is scheduled for this next fall.
I searched around and read a ton of posts...all ended up being a ford vs chevy type deal. Go shoot them all and then decide. All the majors have some really good bows. It's fun to kick tires and try them all out.
Posts: 26 | From: Sandy, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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sparkyibewlocal440
Knows what it's all about
Member # 397
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posted December 14, 2006 08:27 PM
Nice going Tim...How's that shoe leather taste?
Posts: 170 | From: So. Cal | Registered: Sep 2004
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