quote:

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The bottom line is keep the coyote population down so they don't become a problem.

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Oh!! so that`s the bottom line.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 23, 2007, 03:17 AM:
 
Andy and JD,
The bottom line for ME is to have a few callable coyotes around for old farts like me. We don't have a large population of coyotes, so livestock damage is minimal. From time to time, there are a few instances of lambs being killed but this is fairly rare because there ain't that many sheep growers here. Now and then you will here stories of a calf being killed by a coyote, but most of the time there is no real evidence that the calf was not already dead before coyotes ate it. When you do have calves being killed by a coyote,it is usually just one coyote doing the killing. The killer coyote need to be trapped or called in order to stop him. Most farmers here are not willing to hire someone to kill their coyotes. They have more crop damage from deer and turkey. Free roaming domestic dogs are more likely to be calf killers around here than the coyotes are anyway.
 

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Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 23, 2007, 03:41 AM:
 
TA,

I hear ya on the calling. It's a tough go here as well. If I had to hunt your area & "wanted" to just "call".

I would try, the following;

High ridge/bluff, going East to West. Wind from the North. I would park my vehicle on the North side of the ridge off one of the ends of the ridge. Where the road, breaks the ridge in two.

Slink in & over the top of the ridge from the North & East or West end of the ridge. Stalk in no more than an 1/8 mile, plop down. Then commence to call, to the Middle & far end of the ridge. Et the flatland down below.

I would want a wingman, covering my backside over on the other side of the ridge from me, as well.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 23, 2007, 05:04 AM:
 
Rich, I couldnt have said it better. Bottom line for me is to have fun. I dont even care if I kill many coyotes anymore. Dont get me wrong, I still like to kill, but its not the "bottom line". I can have just as much fun watching a coyote as killing it. Especially watching him come to a call and his reactions.

We have about as much predation as you describe as well. Hardly any. Packs of town dogs cause lots more trouble than any coyote ever has around here. I suspect theres not a coyote problem in TAs area either. Seems it takes alot of vehicles cruisin the roads and scout farmers to find enough coyotes to drive for the day.

This "so called predator caller" will just have to miss that boat.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 23, 2007, 05:16 AM:
 
I'm leaveing to go hunting in a few minutes so i only have time to answer a few questions and i well try to answer the rest tonight when i get home..
ADC work: Here the coyotes are not a problem for the cattle ranchers or sheep ranchers, the problems they cause is with the pheasants. Most of the coyotes live and feed in the same areas as the pheasants and there for prey on the pheasants.
I have been out calling for a month and a half, before we started hunting them this year and i have had no results. As far as i'm concerned it is unproductive. I'm not out looking to call in one coyote a year and leave it at that.
The areas we hunt on we have permission from the land owners,and we hunt in 3-4 counties. The land owners have our phone numbers and they call us when they see they have too many coyotes on there property, some don't want any.
Rich: as far as the coyotes not comeing to the calls lately. They have never been comeing to a call as long as i can remember, once in a while some young kid well say he called one on his first attempt and so on. I have never seen the proof so i just take there word for it. I have yet to see it happen so my calling must suck. No big deal when i want to call some in i just go out west and if i just want to hunt them i can do that here.... I will finish up on this subject tonight...
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 23, 2007, 05:26 AM:
 
TA17Rem,
It seems that you actually DO see the truth in my words. Spooked coyotes are mighty tough to call, no doubt about it. It is a sad fact that we must travel to area's with less people and more coyotes in order to have really good luck in calling the buggers.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 23, 2007, 05:46 AM:
 
Tim, Im not trying to pick a fight with you here. Im trying to understand. Its obvious you dont have a huge coyote population to begin with. There is no predation problem with domestic animals. Your protecting pheasants.

I guess Im dense. What the hell are coyotes supposed to eat? Do you not want any coyotes around? Your sounding more and more like alot of the uninformed rednecks around here that have the big bad wolf syndrom. Shoot every coyote they see on sight and wish the damned things didnt exist. When you have to use as many vehciles as you use and cover as much ground as you do, its obvious you dont have many. Sounds like you want none. Kinda strage coming from someone on a predator calling board, not?

Im just having a hard time digesting this. I mean, I hear ignorant remarks like that all the time, but normally not on a predator calling board. Or is it now for "so called predator callers", Im still not sure what that remark meant. So do you like coyotes or not? Do you like to hunt them for sport or are you just wanting more techniques for killing them for protection of birds? Do you actually enjoy the hunt? Do you like seeing coyotes come to a call or is it just the precursor to another dead coyote?

Im just curious. You have completely caught me blindsided with this topic. It really sounds to me like you guys need to get some permits and poison. If your gonna do what you do to kill them, why bother. Just eliminate them comepletly and be done.

Or, is there some sort of sport factor in this and the pheasant protection is just an excuse to use it? If so, thats the same answer I get from the road hunters around here.
 

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Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on January 23, 2007, 08:13 AM:
 
If I understand this right Tim has called in the fall for many years, producing nill, and group hunts in the winter with the trucks, which produces dead coyotes. Tim wants to kill coyotes and calling isn't working for him in his area like it is other areas he calls. And he wants to kill coyotes.

And I don't know why we have to justify killing coyotes, saying it's to protect the pheasants, calves, sheep, pets, children, etc. We kill coyotes because we want to kill coyotes. Period.

If you want to kill alot of coyotes the truck groups and the hound groups kill alot of coyotes. In the recent F-F-G there is an article about hound hunting in Iowa and the "Afton group" killing 75 coyotes a season (one of my calling friends father-in-law is in that group). And I'm sure there are truck groups that do just as good.

Personally, hunting in a big group, be it deer or coyote or whatever, looses part of the hunting "feel" for me. You're pushing the animals by force to the gun. At some point you cross the line between hunting the animal and just shooting the animal. Just my opinion, but it didn't feel like hunting to me when I was sitting there waiting for the animal to be pushed infront of my gun for me to shoot it.

However, if it's legal and they want to kill alot of animals by this method, and I'm not doing anything to make it illegal, I don't have any room to complain do I?

If they are doing it illegally, tresspassing, damaging property by running through fences and tearing up terraces, then I should be calling and turning those indivuduals in. They give all of us law abiding hunters a bad reputation.

By the sounds of it, Tim is doing what we all enjoy, killing coyotes, and doing it the only way he knows how to do it successfully for his area, and is trying to make other means of killing coyotes successful as well. Pretty much the same as many of us.

later,
scruffy
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 23, 2007, 08:33 AM:
 
Thats exactly what Im trying to figger out, Scruff. It doesnt sound like hunting to me. It sounds like elimination.

I dont care. I have no intention of ever hunting MN anyway. Just a bit perplexed about the real reason for this. Is it hunting, something that is to be enjoyed? Or is it killing for the sake of eliminating coyotes, period? I guess your right, if its legal, it doesnt matter what others think. Still doesnt stop my curiousity.

Other than the walking out and pushing coyotes, its got all the makings of the merry go rounds I see here on weekends. It usually involves one gun per truck window and a centrally located cooler of beer. I damned near got shot by one of these hunting parties one time, btw. They appearantly didnt see my truck parked up the road and shot at a coyote I was calling down a drainage. I heard the bullets whizz over my head. I havent thought too kindly of the practice ever since.
 

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Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 23, 2007, 08:43 AM:
 
The way I hunt[spot/stalk], doesn't entice many coyote killers. But that is what keeps it intersting to me. Is overcoming their abilities, to see, hear or wind me.

Pretty much like calling, but reversed. I prefer go to them. Even when my hunt doesn't pan out. I get a good workout et did my best.

edit; One time I stalked in around a 1/2 mile on a bedded coyote. I was getting close, ready to go prone. Some jerk pulls up by my truck on the road. Et cranks off 1-highpower shot @ the same coyote.

Chapped my carcass to no end. I heard the bullet cut through the air. Momentarily, I was tempted to return fire.

[ January 23, 2007, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
 

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Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on January 23, 2007, 09:07 AM:
 
Andy, I wouldn't call it "elimination", can't give them too much credit, the truck hunters leave plenty for "seed". They miss like all of us and running coyotes are low percentage shots.

Plus there are plenty of coyotes that hang out in the sections the trucks can't enter because of the terrain or cover. Lack of permission stops some groups, but not all, from entering alot of sections. In the end re-population occurs every spring.

later,
scruffy
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 23, 2007, 11:30 AM:
 
I'll tell you one thing right now. I have no problem with hunt and stalk. Whatever works. If you have a motive besides just killing coyotes, that's fine. Conservation, harvesting fur, or whatever? Coyote hunters are my brothers and I don't care what your reasons may be? You don't need any more justification than you enjoy the challenge, and have the fever. Let's face it, the sport suffers from too many wannabes.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 23, 2007, 05:03 PM:
 
I dont have a problem either LB. Just kinda caught me off gaurd? I guess I forget we all got different goals. Numbers quit meaning anything to me a while back. I get a kick out of calling them in. Dont matter if I shoot or not, actually get more of a kick if a kid or someone thats never seen it done shoots. I dont even shoot if I see them going to or coming from the stands anymore. No fun in it.

Now, if I ever get to a contest, I might change my mind.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 23, 2007, 05:28 PM:
 
Leonard thanks for your opinion its means a lot to me and i appreciate it..
I forgot that some of you guys like to pick apart words and i left my guard down, also my schooling was'nt the greatest so my grammer is very badd.
I like the coyote more than most people do, i like to kill them with clean one shot kills if possiable, i enjoy just watching them and i enjoy hunting and calling them as well.
I like to shoot them with my 17 rem. cause it is fur friendy and gets the job done for me. I also enjoy skinning them and putting the fur up on boards to dry and then sell. The guys i hunt with where badd at one time but i have polished them up and got them thinking in the right mind. We as a crew hunt the coyotes for sport, to keep the numbers in check and most of all we enjoy it.
When we are out hunting together we don't get every coyote and we do leave some for seed so we have some to hunt next year. We know the areas that we hunt and we have a close idea of whats there.
If i was to stop crew hunting there would be others to take my place. We have alot of compatition on the week-ends but most of them are unorganized and don't do so well.
last year we took 137 coyotes not sure on the exact number and this year there are just as many if not more. We hunt all the coyotes according to state laws, radio's are used to let everyone know where the walkers are and were the coyotes is or going, the state requires us to have a permitt for the radio's, we have that. State law also says that a coyote can be shot at from the road as long as you are not indangering any motorists that are passing by. We do not go into the fields to chase coyotes with our pick-ups, the only time a pick-up goes into a field is to pick up a walker and that is if we have permission to do so by the land-owner. We do not have snowmobiles or 4-wheelers with us when hunting.. We do not drink beer when out hunting, we do smoke a few ciggarettes and eat alot of goose jerky.
This is how we hunt: Everyone gets up at sunrise and drives the back roads looking for tracks or a coyote standing in them, very simuler to looking for a place to call coyotes from. We do this till 10:00 and then we get together and decide where we will hunt first....
Once we decide where we will hunt we will send in one or two trackers depending on how big the area is and how much cover. The goal here is for the trackers to go to the coyote instead of the coyote comeing to them, just the oppisite of calling. If they can get into the area and catch the coyote sleeping then they will take the shot. Sometimes that don't always work and the trackers end up takeing a jump shot, sometimes they get them sometimes not.. If the shot is a miss the coyote is then running in the direction that he chooses to go, simuler to a coyote comeing to the call. We have 3-4 blockers posted at key locations that we think the coyote will come if the walkers get busted, two of the blockers are in there 60's or early 70's. Some of the blockers will stand behind the vehicle to get out of the wind, i like to sit on the end of a fence line or on the inslope of the ditch. Now the coyote is comeing out and is running towards one of the blockers (kinda like a coyote comeing to a call) the blocker then takes a shot at the coyote when it is close enough. Sometimes they hit him sometimes not, if it is a miss and the coyote gets across the road, and depending whats in the next section we will either go after it or we will let it go and come back some other time and try again. Lets say the next section is wide open with no cover, then the blockers will drive to three sides and wait for the walkers to try again. And again it can be a hit or miss.
Some of you maynot have ever seen a skinned out coyote, well they have the same body simuler to a greyhound, they were built to run fast and far and it don't hurt them one bit..
I don't care for hound hunters but i will stand along side them anytime, there tactics are different from calling or hunt and stalk, but like Leonard said we are all brothers and we need to stand together. If calling in lots of coyotes here was possible then i would call them, but at the moument its not so i do what i do..
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 23, 2007, 05:55 PM:
 
Leonard, I understand the mindset of coyote hunters being our brothers but I`ll be the one to be bold enough to say that every ******* with a gun that shoots a coyote IS NOT MY BROTHER, in fact some of them are nothing but assholes with guns shooting at coyotes, plain & simple & most of them not only misrepresent those of us who care about the sport but they are down right damaging to it & us by proxy.

Anyhow....I could give a shit what justification people give for what they do, most times I just chuckle a little & move on. I personally hunt coyotes because I enjoy it & I want to, enough said, I`m not an ADC man & 90% of those that talk about such things couldn`t tell the difference between their A-hole & a coyote den anyhow.

Driving coyotes with trucks & shooting them out the window in order to save the pheasants would have to be one of the damndest things I have ever heard.

I`m with Rich, farmers suffer more loss from deer & coons than they do from coyotes around here, as far as that goes, coons do a hell of a lot more damage to upland birds than coyotes so maybe we should get some trucks together & roust out all the deer & coons & kill the sonsabitches before the american farmer goes bankrupt. See how silly that sounds, to me it sounds just as silly to say that about coyotes. Leave the ADC work to Cal & Scott, they know what the hell they`re doing.

I`m not going to go off on a tangent about truck hunters.....YET.


[ January 23, 2007, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: JD ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 23, 2007, 06:09 PM:
 
Who in the hell said we where doing any ADC work. Here you can find the coyotes in the same cover as the pheasants, so what do you think they are eating? I don't care if they kill some deer, we have to many as it is. Like i said in the above post we hunt them for more reasons than just the pheasants. So i guess i'm an ******* , well i don't care what you think...
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 23, 2007, 08:13 PM:
 

quote:

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The bottom line is keep the coyote population down so they don't become a problem.

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Call it what you like.

I never said you were an ******* , YOU did.

It looks to me, from what you described, that you do things by the law & who am I to argue differently? But for every truck hunter who does things legally there are 100 others who could give a poop about law, landowners, other hunters or the sport.

I agree with Rich 100% because I`ve seen it around here.....keep running them with trucks & shooting from them & you`ll always have a problem calling them in those areas.......you`re kind of like the guy who climbs up a tree with a saw & cuts off the branch he`s standing on.
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 23, 2007, 08:17 PM:
 
Better yet Tim, why don`t you shoot ALL the pheasants then your coyotes will be hungry according to your theory, that should make them easier to call.

Let us know if it works.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 23, 2007, 08:55 PM:
 
Maintaining a straight face 'cause I'm neutral. However, JD that was one hell of a zinger.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 23, 2007, 10:29 PM:
 
Not all the coyotes feed on the pheasants, the ones up on the high ground eat rabbits and mice and so on. thats what i have been told anyway. I also heard that the Neb. are fond of sheep and if so you must not be getting youre share, but thats just what i heard. Anyway wether you approve of it or not i dont care and i'm going hunting again tommorrow and try to kill as many as i can. You have a nice day as well..
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 24, 2007, 05:34 AM:
 
There was a cowboy from NE. & a cowboy from MN. riding along one day when they came across a sheep with its head stuck in a fence, the NE. cowboy jumped down from his horse, dropped his pants & got busy on that sheep, when he was done he pulled up his britches, looked at the MN. cowboy & said "you want some of that" The cowboy from MN. said "damn right I want some" so he jumped off his horse, dropped his britches & stuck his head in the fence.

The moral of the story is......stop harrassing your own coyotes & they`ll be easier to call, regardless of what you think they eat.

 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 24, 2007, 06:11 AM:
 
ROFLMFAO

You Goofy bastard.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 24, 2007, 06:31 AM:
 
JD,
I do believe that I like you. No,I'm sure of it. You are alright JD, I don't care WHAT TA said about you.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 24, 2007, 09:45 AM:
 
Okay JD, now you've hit a nerve. I was born in Minnesota, and am careful turning my back on a Nebraskan.
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on January 24, 2007, 10:40 AM:
 
I would like to know if driving coyotes and killing them what is your % of each drive? How many coyotes avg do you kill off each drive? I would think your coyotes are not uncallable, I would think you need to modify some things but could still call them in? If your killing 137 a winter.
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 24, 2007, 03:52 PM:
 
Not to worry Leonard, the story was just for effect, I think.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 24, 2007, 04:09 PM:
 
JD LOL's You are trying to turn me into the person i'm not so i'm going back to the way i normally am and thats a nice guy, hey you win and i don't care. I'm still going to hunt coyotes my way, And by the way we got two more coyotes today..
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 24, 2007, 04:47 PM:
 
Coyotewhacker: the percentage of kills per drive can very from day to day. Snow conditions, the cover the coyotes are in, the size of the section, number of blockers and so on. Today for example we got on two tracks right away in the A.M.. I took one track and another hunter took the other track. The coyote the other hunter was tracking went into some long grass and slipped into a hole in the ground. End of hunt for that coyote. The track i was on took me through two sections, and when i caught up to the coyote he was in the long grass. When the coyote got up it ran to the East and circled back around me to the south. I made a straight bee-line south in the grass and picked up the track heading back to the west and then finally it went north. I stayed on the track going north and pushed the coyote out of the grass. I never got a shot off and the coyote continued north and ran passed one of the blockers and got into next section.
We put a fresh tracker on the tracks and he headed north into a three mile section after the coyote. The coyote busted out of this section early and went west into another section which had some long grass in it, but was'nt very big.
This section is one of my favorite sections to get a coyote in, it has some nice rolling hills and water ways. We decided to use the killing box tactic, it has always produced for us in this section. We sent three hunters into this section, one is on the tracks and the other two come in from the north and the west and set-up on two small hills overlooking the grass. the tracker jumps the coyote out of the grass and as usual the coyote heads north. We waited for the coyote to pass into the kill zone and then one of the shooters took the shot and the coyote went down.
We make three or four drives a day plus some of the coyotes are shot by one of the crew on 1 on 1 hunts. Well today we tracked four coyotes and we got two. Last year we would shoot one or more coyotes a day, and our best day was six coyotes, everyone on the crew that day made a kill......
We don't want to kill them all, but we do try to hunt the areas that have two or more coyotes in it, and then maybe later we go after the singles... Do we get them all in a drive? No not always, but we do try......

Andy: you said in a previous post that when you walk into a stand and kick up a coyote, or see one loafing you pass on them.. Either you are B.S. us or you have lost heart, the will to hunt. And that is very sadd my friend.... I will continue to hunt till i can no longer walk or my heart no longer beats...
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 24, 2007, 05:38 PM:
 
Nope, just like to watch em come to the call. I got more heart than most, I would bet on it.

I had this conversation with Higgins a while back. Rich, do you kill every coyote you see? Do you kill every coyote you call? Do you kill em on the way to and from stands, if your not in a contest?

I enjoy hunting. Probably more than you could ever know. Maybe someday you can get that lucky. Coyotes fascinate the hell out of me.

I just reread your post and you can kiss my ass btw. I may be alot of things, but Im not any type of BS. I dont pretend to be shit. Can you say that? Edit. Rich is right. Its not worth the pissin match I was about to start. Just leave that if anyones full of shit, its you.

[ January 25, 2007, 03:33 AM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 24, 2007, 05:47 PM:
 
yes please continue, get it all off youre chest.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 24, 2007, 07:06 PM:
 
TA17Rem,
You started this thread using my name in the title. I would appreciate it if you would start a new thread with a different title. Just let this one die please. Thanks in advance.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 24, 2007, 08:02 PM:
 
Sorry about that rich. will do..
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 24, 2007, 08:27 PM:
 

quote:

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you said in a previous post that when you walk into a stand and kick up a coyote, or see one loafing you pass on them.. Either you are B.S. us or you have lost heart, the will to hunt.

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Tim, with that statement as your criteria for classifying someone as full of shit you`ve included more than a few people on this & other boards.

I have personally let several coyotes walk in the last few years that could have easily been shot, because I didn`t call them. Not so much in the old days but anymore I don`t care to shoot a coyote that happens to wander across my path just because I can, I feel as though I`ve cheated myself in some way if I just blast at any & every coyote I see. There just isn`t any sense of accomplishment or satisfaction in it for me. That`s exactly the starting point from which I draw my conclusions about that type of hunting, it seems as though ANYTHING is fair game. As far as me trying to change who you are, I wouldn`t think of it, you do what you want to & feel good about it, I`m just conversing on a thread that struck me as interesting.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 25, 2007, 03:36 AM:
 
Tim, Im not saying I dont like to kill coyotes. Im not saying I always have let em walk on the way in and out. But I do now, unless someone with me wants to pop away or the mood strikes, but not normally. They got enough dipshits that cant call coyotes or too lazy to, out cruisin the roads, suckin on a brew and slingin lead out the window at em.

Ill leave it at that.

[ January 25, 2007, 03:37 AM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 25, 2007, 04:13 AM:
 
TA17Rem,
Thanks again. Don't kill ALL of those minnesota coyotes now. Chase some over my way instead. We need a few coyotes down here.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 25, 2007, 09:43 AM:
 
Over on P.M. I read a post that was just made today. This guy saw a coyote walking along a fence line in daytime and took a photo of it. Then he makes a smug statement to the effect that human intrusion into a coyote's living room has no effect on the effectiveness of calling them. This guy smugly implies that his sighting of a coyote walking down a fenceline in daytime is proof that these spooky coyotes can be called across open area's in daytime also. Interesting? LOL More importantly, this guy seems to believe that chasing coyotes with trucks don't effect calling those coyotes at all. WOW!

[ January 25, 2007, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: Rich ]
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 25, 2007, 10:00 AM:
 
Rich

Time to get your medication checked!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 25, 2007, 10:07 AM:
 
PM? Seems like I have heard of it? Is that the Board that is geared toward the novice? At least that is what MM told me, once? Anybody recognize him?



Good hunting. LB

[ January 25, 2007, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 25, 2007, 10:47 AM:
 
Leonard,
I pay the big bucks to advertise over there. There are more new callers showing up over there all of the time. I think it is a shame that someone who has been around coyotes for so many years could make such an ignorant statement. It seems to me that we should try to help these newcomers to our sport, not feed them such bad information like that. I figured that I could lure the guilty party over here on this board to spout off. It worked. LOL
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 25, 2007, 11:06 AM:
 
O great, ****** pile on Dennis. LOL

Edit: Dennis says smugly. "Anybody else have any excuses why they can't call coyote".

[ January 25, 2007, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on January 25, 2007, 11:57 AM:
 
Yes Dennis. I have seventeen good excuses. Heavy pressure, regardless of the source, still ranks number one.
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 25, 2007, 12:07 PM:
 
Yes. but.....People still call and kill coyote in heavily pressured areas! You of all people should know that fact.

[ January 25, 2007, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 25, 2007, 12:22 PM:
 
"Yes. but.....People still call and kill coyote in heavily pressured areas!"
---------------------------------------
All well and good Dennis, but that don't make it ok to make untrue statements does it?
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 25, 2007, 12:37 PM:
 
Oh... so it untrue that callers can call and kill coyote in areas that suffer from heavy truck pressure?

Well golly LOL

[ January 25, 2007, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on January 25, 2007, 12:43 PM:
 

quote:

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Yes. but.....People still call and kill coyote in heavily pressured areas!

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Yes Sir, and more than 300 people are struck and injured by lightning in the U.S. each year.
I am not going to remain indoors during thunder storms and I am not going to expect to call any numbers of coyotes in high pressure areas.
Unusual storm systems and deer, elk, quail,and javelina hunters all exert pressure (and DID this past weekend) and often have a very negative affect on calling responses.
Last weekend the annual Multi-Club hunt was held in Heber. Six clubs committed. PVCI won with six coyotes. The annual Save a Fawn hunt was held in Heber on Sun. One coyote was turned in.
I can take you to some areas of AZ. that used to produce good numbers of coyotes where you have a greater chance of being struck by lightning than calling in a coyote.
Contrary to the belief of many with limited experience, some coyotes cannot be called in.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 25, 2007, 01:02 PM:
 
"Oh... so it untrue that callers can call and kill coyote in areas that suffer from heavy truck pressure?"
----------------
No Dennis, but leading folks to believe that the chasing of coyotes with trucks does not affect calling success sure enough is.
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 25, 2007, 01:37 PM:
 
Well as soon as trucks, airplanes,snowmobiles, hounds and Amish buggies start buying predator calls, I'm going to start worrying. That's going to be some stiff competition from a calling standpoint.

EDIT:

[ January 25, 2007, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on January 25, 2007, 02:29 PM:
 
I've seen a lot of coyotes take off running at the sight of my truck. I've seen a lot of coyotes run right past my truck coming to the call.

I'm betting, that with rare exception, they weren't the same coyotes .

- DAA
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 25, 2007, 03:55 PM:
 
That`s exactly right Dave, I`ve been in these discussions before & am still amazed at people who don`t think a coyote can be spooked or coyotes in a certain area wont change their behavior due to pressure, I`ve got a couple areas that I`ve seen many coyotes absolutely haul ass just from the sound of tires slowing down on the gravel a half mile away, not skidding, just merely slowing down. I`ve seen coyotes get up & haul ass at the very first sound from the caller, all these things have taken place in high pressure areas.

I believe 100% that Rich Higgins is correct when he says that some coyotes can`t be called & that isn`t natural, it`s a learned behavior & guess where they learned it.

Greenside, I`ve called coyotes in high pressure areas before, sure it`s possible, but why waste that much time & effort for such a small return if any.
 

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Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 25, 2007, 04:17 PM:
 
Same thing here JD. Thats why I rarely call around THIS area. Atleast stalking, I get to make the game plan, insted of the coyotes. Most of the times, they win.
 

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Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 25, 2007, 05:22 PM:
 
Also in this same area[virtually no ground cover]. In the last 3yrs, I called 7 coyotes.

One came towards me, stopped a tad over 100yrds.
One swung wide over 300yrds loping/looking my way.
One sit down & stared around 1/4 mile away.
One bolted hard out of a timber patch the opposite direction.
One stopped & stared around 700yrds away, then walked on the way it was going.
One came out of a timber patch towards me. Trying to pinpoint my location.

edit; Make that 7 coyotes. A couple days ago, I stalked & crawled to with 270yrds est. Coyote didn't know I was there. I lip-squeeked on/off for a minute. Then rabbit squalls with PEE-WEE. Coyote was indifferent & walked over the hill.

Not real productive, IMO.
Another reason, I shoot long.

[ January 25, 2007, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 25, 2007, 05:58 PM:
 
Quote: Greenside, I`ve called coyotes in high pressure areas before, sure it`s possible, but why waste that much time & effort for such a small return if any.

And that is why i hunt the way i do.

[ January 25, 2007, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 26, 2007, 05:10 AM:
 
There is no doubt that coyotes learn to be road shy and call shy due to pressure. As I said in an earlier post, we have alot of toothless, inbred idiots running the roads around here all winter long, claiming to be coyote hunting. Some drop hounds out to disguise the road hunting as some form of actual hunting, but its all shootin coyotes off the road.

Anyone that doesnt believe it, just come watch. If you see a coyote in the field, watch his reaction when you hit the brakes.

Tim, I got another question for you. Your in the pheasant protection business, you have already established that. What about hawks? You poof lots of them as well? They are big time pheasant and quail eaters. Probably moreso than coyotes. How do you stop that slaughter? You probably dont need too many of them flyin around up there either eh?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 26, 2007, 06:10 AM:
 
Andy: Yes we do have some hawks and owls around and yes they prey on the pheasants. And no, i do not shoot them if they are preying on the pheasants.
Some where along the line some of you have misunder stood me, i hunt coyotes and fox for other reason besides protecting pheasants. I enjoy the red fox and coyote as much as others, but i love to hunt them or call them depending on where i'm at. We are not trying to rid the country side of them either. The fox population is makeing a comeback cause we chose not to hunt them in the last few years, the coyotes on the other hand are doing very well here. When i hunted coyotes here by myself i would take 30 to 50 a year, and the crew would take 100 plus a year. A few years back i got invited to hunt with this crew and have been doing it ever since. Now we take a total of 130 a year and we still leave plenty for seed. So it dose'nt matter which way i hunt we still get the same numbers and its also fun to beable to get together and hunt with others. I will also tell you that if the coyotes were callable then the population would be alot lower, but then again it seems the coyotes have adapted to the hunting pressure and there for have larger litters to take the place of the ones we got through the winter.
When we hunt coyotes we can see how they live and how they have learned to adapt, i consider myself lucky to be able to see this. Where alot of other callers live you can't see this. All they see is the coyote comeing to the call and how he reacts to it. I just got a phone call and i have to go hunting.. All take care...
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on January 26, 2007, 03:06 PM:
 
Larger litters can take place it depends on prey base, coyote density, disease issues and weather as well.

This "den" issue well, I have a friend East of me that aierial hunts the same places each winter the coyotes have become used to this flying and will enter road culverts to escape danger, they have him on the ground to shoot those that enter road culverts as they simply won't leave them, this is done in areas of maintance for coyote supression.

I also in my area have ranchers that see coyotes laid up in the hay stacks in the winter, the high majority are real mangy and seek these places out for survival, not because it is their nature to do so and most coyotes won't enter a machine shed to lay up for awhile.

Dens and coyotes are for pup rearing and most are abonadoned by the 4th of July in that area anyways. They will run down holes and use cover in extreme weather and for survival ie: pressure applied in a quick instance, the majority will just slip away down a draw.

Pups when chased are squirrly buggers and will drop down the first hole they think they can fit, but after they get so big, while they will lay in close proximity to old dens they don't like to go back down in them.

I live in open harsh country and the winters can be tough but the high majority find it plumb fine to hang out in draws and cedar breaks and creek bottoms as opposed to trying to find holes to lay up in. So I wouldn't call anything outside of pup rearing a den as the majority won't use them on a even semi regular basis outside of this time and you know when you find a den a "true den" as the spokes of a wagon wheel and the paths beaten down to them.

They will move those pups on a whim when pressured even a little to a new local.
 

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Posted by Hawkeye (Member # 216) on January 26, 2007, 04:40 PM:
 
Higgins did anyone from SAWC show up in Heber.
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 26, 2007, 04:40 PM:
 
I think the "Den" issue is mostly about different interpretations for the same word. Some folks think a den is only someplace that an animal goes to live or raise it's young. I grew up with the interpretation that a den was any hole that an animal might crawl into for protection. A coon will den up in the engine compartment of a tractor when dogs are chasing him. He doesn't live there, but if he ran in there to hide, we called it a den.

It's kind of like the word Dinner. If I invited everyone here to come over Sunday for Dinner, some of you would show up at noon, while the rest wouldn't get here until sundown. Just depends on where you are from. Of course, if you were like those smartassed farm boys that I grew up with, you'd show up at noon, eat lunch, then hang around drinking all of my beer until supper time, just because I didn't specify which dinner, and you didn't want to miss out.
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on January 26, 2007, 04:56 PM:
 
Hey Eddie.
No one from Tucson showed. Or from the White Mountain or Safford clubs.
 

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Posted by Hawkeye (Member # 216) on January 26, 2007, 04:59 PM:
 
Thanks Rich I hunted we killed 2 only knew of 2 others hunting they killed 1 between them. I was afraid of the weather so we decided not to drive up.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 26, 2007, 05:11 PM:
 
Yeah Tim, invite us to dinner. We will do all the above and dent your humidor. LOL
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 26, 2007, 05:16 PM:
 
Don't do it Andy. He has mange, or flea's or----No, I mean Shingles.

Lord I apologize for that right up there and please be with the starving pygmies down there in Africa--Amen
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 26, 2007, 07:55 PM:
 
Hey Rich,

I'll have you know that I'm not the only one who's posted on this board today with that damned Herpes virus.

But I'll let the guilty speak up on their own. It's not like they can lay down to sleep with out thinking about it!
 

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Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 27, 2007, 05:30 AM:
 
Well, Rich C.

It's kinda funny, here awhile back you offered to buy me a cup of coffee. Now from your last assessment of myself. I'm full of sh*t. Apparently times, do change.

Little ground rules over here. No doubt some of these conversations, would have a different outcome in person.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 27, 2007, 06:47 AM:
 
Tim Behle,
Sorry for making humor out of your Shingles deal. It is no laughing matter. I too know of someone else here who is suffering from it. I don't believe it is really a Herpes virus though. It is my understanding that each and every one of us who had chicken pox as a child, are in danger of developing Shingles. I had the chicken pox when I was a kid, so shingles virus is lying dormant in my body also. I guess there is a shot available at your doctor's office now which is supposed to prevent Shingles. My wife wants me to get one, but I am dragging my feet. Anyway, I hope that you are getting better quickly. Shingles sucks.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 27, 2007, 06:50 AM:
 
2dogs,
I was a bit harsh with you in that post, and I must apologize for that. The coffee offer still holds, and I will pay for your lunch also.
 

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Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on January 27, 2007, 06:53 AM:
 
Peace
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on January 27, 2007, 06:59 AM:
 
Guilty? If this is punishment I must be guilty of something truly horrendous.
I attended my wife's step-father's funeral yesterday. I never noticed before that all who need consolation or try to console others hug the person next to them and rub their back. Even children.
I'm exhausted today from all of the back rubbing I received yesterday.
 

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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on January 27, 2007, 10:02 AM:
 
Quote: "I believe 100% that Rich Higgins is correct when he says that some coyotes can`t be called & that isn`t natural, it`s a learned behavior & guess where they learned it."

There is not a coyote alive that cannot be called. It just takes the right sound, on the right day, in the right conditions, from the right location to make it happen.

There is certainly some coyotes that cannot be called with a conventional rabbit call but that isn't the only sound available.

The day that a coyote's interest is not perked by the sound of a dying rabbit or the sound of a howl will be the day that coyotes perish from the earth.

It's not just the calling, it's the calling with a unrealistic sounding rabbit, following the sound of vehicles coming from a source of danger, coming from the same spot that someone else called from. They put it all together. The next day they may run towards a pr. dog town where they heard a shot knowing that pieces of pr. dog wait their arrival.

Coyotes shy from a combination of sounds and events that spell danger, not just the wabbit scweam.

As far as coyote hunting from roads and walking them out, knock yourslelves out. If it's legal, it's fine.

As far as coyotes becoming educated, 70% of most coyote populations are young of the year and uneducated until they've been exposed to snowmobiles, calling, bird hunters, deer hunters, airplanes, etc. They are not born educated.

Every coyote has a different level of curiousity and a different level of caution to each circumstance depending on their previous circumstances. Too many guys try to paint with a broad brush and make the extreme become the norm.

~SH~

[ January 27, 2007, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 27, 2007, 10:35 AM:
 

quote:

---

It just takes the right sound, on the right day, in the right conditions, from the right location to make it happen.

---

Sound...maybe. Day, conditions, & location.....that would sound really good in a seminar or to someone who couldn`t separate good info from the obvious.

If a coyote in a certain area has learned behaviors that make him wise to a call, why would the day make any difference? did he forget what he learned the day before?

Conditions?

Location? Again...the obvious is overwhelming, we`re talking about high pressure areas, location, location, location. After he`s educated from a few different angles it won`t make a bit of difference.

I believe your wrong Scott, I didn`t say you don`t know your shit, I just believe your wrong & the funny thing about it is that neither one of us could absolutely prove it one way or the other.

Even if you could bring all of those elements together on a certain educated coyote......how could you prove it without electronic collars & purposely harrassing & educating a group of coyotes? Maybe you could get some funding for such a project, you could get TA to come & harrass them.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 27, 2007, 10:37 AM:
 
Scott: I have one mile square sections here and some a little bigger, can the coyotes be called out into the open or across the road into another section dureing the day? Any hints on what sounds i could try? Most sections here are bare except a creek with trees and thick brush running through the middle of section. I also have sections with CRP grass which cosists of a half section or as little as a 1/4 section.....
If i have to go to the center of the section to call them i could just as well jump shoot them or kick them to another shooter..
I'm not looking to just be able to call in a coyote, i'm looking for ways to increase my percentage of coyote kills by either calling or hunting. Any help would be appreciated...
Also how does youre schedule look for Feb. as far as takeing on a student... Tim A.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 27, 2007, 11:00 AM:
 
JD: I think Scott is right on as far as the right time or day goes. I was on a calling trip a few years ago and i had a ranch that i called on. There was a male coyote there and he was wise to the calling game. I tried to get him to come in but he would just stay behind the hill and bark, so i packed up and left...I came back a couple weeks later and tried calling again with some different sounds, he responded the same as last time, hid behind a hill and barked and howled..
I swithed to a new howler that i just bought a week before the hunt, and i started to bark and howl back at him. The coyote came out from behind the hill into the open, barking the whole time and scratching the ground with its hind legs. I got this coyote to stand still long enough for the shot and i got him. I found out i was onto something so i went to some other areas i new that had coyotes that i could not call in before. And the same was repeted two more times and i had two more coyotes to take home.
This year i went backout to the area i hunt and this time i was useing a cronk screemer i wanted to test. I started the stands with rabbit screems and then switched over to the screemer to bring them in. The right time, the right sound, the right conditions, from the right location. What Scott says has worked for me, there fore i believe Scott knows what he is talking about....
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 27, 2007, 11:24 AM:
 
Cripes, TA. Scott can't find a hat to fit him as it is!

But, anyway. Essentially, he's right on that issue. There are an infinate number of solutions, time of day, atmospheric conditions, the location of the call and the location of the coyote (ie: comfort zone) We know this stuff. Some days, some coyotes are uncallable using what you use, from where you are located. I have moved 100 yards and called difficult coyotes that romp in, without a care in the world.

Diminishing returns plays a part. Sometimes it's just not worth the effort, sometimes, you don't have anything better to do, at the moment. I remember one time I knew that I had a pair barking at me from behind brush and I had turned the sound all the way down on the remote caller while I was searching for a particular hand call in my gear. I straightened up just in time to see them both run into the speaker and one of them put his nose in it. Apparently, what I thought was all the way off, was an enticement?

But, I have done this sort of thing at night many times. Take a tree branch and slap it around, snapping and breaking twigs, sometimes I kick some gravel or make scratching noises with my fingers, rub two rocks together. You would be supprised at what triggers a response from a cautious coyote. As I said, the combinations are limitless.

Even blowing my nose, I have had spooky coyotes that I couldn't locate suddenly light up like a pair of searchlights. But, just because it worked once doesn't mean you have found the Holy Grail.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on January 27, 2007, 11:29 AM:
 
TA17 you hit on something when you stated" If I have to go to the center of the section", well alot of times thats is where those coyotes are going to be. Scott pointed out to try and call coyotes from within 1/4 mile or a little more from a road on pressured coyotes would proove out to not be benefical or yield good results.

When pressured some of the best areas are going to be in the middle of larger land tracts with little intrusion and areas that provide them cover as well.Alot of walking and setting up deeper in the areas less travled will find more coyotes for sure in pressured areas.

Scott knows coyote calling for sure.

[ January 27, 2007, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: coyote whacker ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 27, 2007, 11:51 AM:
 
LOL Leonard. I hear that they have ten gal hats in texas. If i ever get a coyote to come in i'll send off and get one for Scott.
I do not know Scott very well but i do call in some of the same areas as him and alot of what Scott says makes sense to me from my own exsperiances.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 27, 2007, 02:00 PM:
 
TA17Rem,
Instead of trying to call those highly pressured coyotes during mid day, I suggest being on your chosen stand real early in the morning while it is still dark. When it gets light enough for you to see fifty yards or so, it is time to give them a non agressive Lone howl. Coyote eyes are still adjusting at that time, and they think it is still dark. Wait in silence for two or three minutes and then get clear out to reed tip on that Cronk "screamer" and hit em with some very high pitched screams. I think you may be surprised at the results.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 27, 2007, 02:13 PM:
 
TA, I can't type very fast, so I give shorter answers. When calling at first light, the way I described above, coyotes will often cross those wide open fields and come to a call. For this reason, you can set up on a hillside where you are looking down on a brushy creek bottom that you know coyotes love to hunt. Call toward the creek bottom.
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 27, 2007, 03:03 PM:
 
I never said that changing up a little wouldn`t produce in hard hit areas although Leonard summed it up nicely with his diminishing returns comment.

I`ve got a whole list of quirky little tricks for tough coyotes, that`s not my point, Scott said ANY coyote can be called, I say nay. I`m not trying to prove that I know more than he does or say that he isn`t credible I just don`t believe him on this point & I`m sure he could give 2 shits what I think but I won`t roll over & piss myself because he said this or that with no hard evidence to back it up.

I have no quantifiable evidence either, it`s just what I believe from experience, I could give all sorts of examples of this or that happening on stand but there is no absolute proof one way or the other, I didn`t make the statement to see who would shove their noses up Scotts ass or who would jump on his back I just simply stated what I believe about SOME coyotes.
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 27, 2007, 03:14 PM:
 
Rich,

I don't mind you laughing, hell I do all of the time. People can't help but to stare at my scars, when they finally get the nerve to ask what happened, I just reply "It's from Herpes" and watch their reactions!

Shingles is caused by the Herpes Zoster virus, one of 8 types of herpes virus infecting most humans, and lying dormant in nearly everyone of us. It is most commonly triggered by stress, and the older we get, the more likely it is to become triggered.

There is a vaccine, the down side is that Doctors won't give it to you until you are 60. Listen to your wife, go get the shot!

Mine was across the left side of my head, I got it barely in one eye, and was lucky to regain my vision. The bad side for me, is that I still can't wear a hat for more than a few minutes before the scars start aching. I've always worn a cowboy hat, I found one I really loved a few years ago, but now it just sits on the rack gathering dust. I just bought a hat stretcher the other day, I'm hoping that if I keep steaming and stretching it, I can once again start wearing it.

Don't worry about the pain and irritation that shingles will cause. Think about how much your life would change if you got shingles in your eye, and didn't regain your vision. How much more incentive do you need to go and get the vaccine?
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 27, 2007, 05:08 PM:
 
Tim Behle,
Thanks for the good advice. Now about that hat stretcher--Would you consider loaning it to Wiley E. ?
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 27, 2007, 05:36 PM:
 
Tim I didnt know you were strugglin with that again. Hate to hear it buddy.
 

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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on January 27, 2007, 08:02 PM:
 
JD,

I appreciate the fact that you think for yourself. Seriously! Independent thinking seems to be a rare commodity at times.

Let's engage in civil debate shall we?

JD: "Sound...maybe. Day, conditions, & location.....that would sound really good in a seminar or to someone who couldn`t separate good info from the obvious."

Hahaha! Fair enough!

I'll say it again, I do not believe there is a coyote alive that I can't call by eventually finding the right combination of sound, day, conditions, and location. I repeat, COMBINATION OF....

Granted, sometimes it's very difficult to come up with the right combination but I haven't found a coyote yet that I couldn't eventually call and kill.

JD: "If a coyote in a certain area has learned behaviors that make him wise to a call, why would the day make any difference? did he forget what he learned the day before?"

If you have called coyotes for any amount of years, you have to realize that the days are not the same. There is some days that you cannot buy a coyote and there is some days where you can't seem to do anything wrong. Those same "can't do anything wrong" days will also create a different reaction in educated coyotes as well.

I have literally crawled up on coyotes that were bedded down and blew the best distress calls I could muster and they would pick their heads up and then go back to sleeping. That wasn't a call shy coyote, that was probably a coyote that spent the night running his ass off. I don't care what sound you blow, there is simply days when you won't call a percentage of the coyotes no matter what you do. Educated coyotes have those same days as well.

JD: "Conditions?"

You bet conditions. If you happen to hit that educated coyote just before a major weather system hits, his reaction could be totally different than a normal day.

JD: "Location? Again...the obvious is overwhelming, we`re talking about high pressure areas, location, location, location. After he`s educated from a few different angles it won`t make a bit of difference."

You are correct that location, in and of itself, will not alter your success IF EVERY LOCATION HAS BEEN TRIED and all other things stay the same.

JD: "I believe your wrong Scott, I didn`t say you don`t know your shit, I just believe your wrong & the funny thing about it is that neither one of us could absolutely prove it one way or the other."

Well JD, all I can tell you is that I have not found a coyote that I couldn't call and kill eventually by finding the right combination of sound, location, and circumstances.

I've watched coyotes sit and warning bark at me using traditional methods when I wasn't planning on educated coyotes. There was no way those coyote saw me or heard me. All they heard was a distress call that sounded too much like a previous bad experience. After allowing those coyotes to "cool down", I would slip in from a different direction with a different sound and had them practically run me over.

JD: "Even if you could bring all of those elements together on a certain educated coyote......how could you prove it without electronic collars & purposely harrassing & educating a group of coyotes? Maybe you could get some funding for such a project, you could get TA to come & harrass them."

I've been at this year round for a long long time. I've been able to watch the reaction of many coyotes to the wrong combination of location and sound. Can I break out each variable in each situation and credit success to a certain variable? Of course not but I know what combination didn't work and I know what combination did work.

~SH~
 

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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on January 27, 2007, 08:21 PM:
 
TA 17Rem: "I have one mile square sections here and some a little bigger, can the coyotes be called out into the open or across the road into another section dureing the day?"

That's a loaded question that depends on the amount of hunting pressure in your specific area. No way I can answer that without knowing the variables you are faced with.

A much better approach would be to locate them specifically by glassing or getting them to howl then slipping in on them unseen and try calling them without too much volume.

TA 17 Rem: "Any hints on what sounds i could try?"

If you believe they have heard the traditional "wabbit scweams", try a bird distress or the kiss of death on your hand.

TA 17 Rem: "Most sections here are bare except a creek with trees and thick brush running through the middle of section. I also have sections with CRP grass which cosists of a half section or as little as a 1/4 section....."

Amazingly, some of those places are dynamite calling places because most coyote hunters are looking for the huge coyote country expanses. In situations like that, you know right where those coyotes will be which is generally as far as they can get from each road that surrounds them or in the thickest cover which may be near the road.

If they've been called, use the buddy system and go in there upwind with the traditional setup and let them run to your silent sniping buddy who is directly downwind. It's like trapping a digger coyote by exposing the trap that was dug slightly and burying a clean trap in front of it.

TA 17 REM: "If i have to go to the center of the section to call them i could just as well jump shoot them or kick them to another shooter.."

Exactly! I have as much fun doing that as I do calling them. Nothing funner than having an unsuspecting coyote running towards you looking over their shoulder at your partner.

TA 17 Rem: "I'm not looking to just be able to call in a coyote, i'm looking for ways to increase my percentage of coyote kills by either calling or hunting. Any help would be appreciated..."

Try the buddy system. One guy approaches them upwind from the vehicle while the other guy posts down wind where he was dropped off on the go. Let the games begin.

TA 17 Rem: "Also how does youre schedule look for Feb. as far as takeing on a student... Tim A."

Looks good!

We'll talk via email.

~SH~
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 29, 2007, 06:52 AM:
 
I was anticipating a more brutal public flogging?
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 29, 2007, 07:40 AM:
 
Greenside,
I think 40 lashes with a wet noodle would be appropriate.
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 29, 2007, 07:46 AM:
 
Crawl back in your hole Dennis.

Scott, I appreciate your response, very thourough as usual. I do agree that it, is/should be, possible in theory but I still say that the average or even above average caller won`t be able to hit that magic combination on some coyotes, ever.

Maybe you really can call any coyote alive, I don`t know but I`m somewhat curious, maybe I should make a trip to Kadoka for some much needed tutelage.
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 29, 2007, 08:32 AM:
 
Dennis rests smugly in his den, comptemplating on who to blame the next time he walks out of a stand empty handed... Hmmmm
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 29, 2007, 01:56 PM:
 
Road hunters, of course.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 29, 2007, 02:20 PM:
 
JD,
Did you realize that you can call Iowa coyotes right across an open field, no matter how many trucks have chased it? I mean on a regular basis now JD, no amount of hunting pressure or other human activity has any effect. I read it on the internet, so I know this to be true.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 29, 2007, 05:33 PM:
 
Rich,

Wow, those Iowa coyotes must be tough.Really hard to call,know where all the trucks are,and when you do happen to call one in, you need a .25 caliber deer rifle to put em down.lol I think I'll stick with our stupid western coyotes that drop like a rock when shot with my .204.lol Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 29, 2007, 06:13 PM:
 
UTcaller,
Sometimes I doubt that I will ever be lucky enough to get back out west where there are lots of coyotes and very few people. I am walking every day, and hoping that one day I can get out for a REAL coyote safari once more. It is likely only fond memories now. I have been there and done that. My attempts to pass on what I have learned falls on deaf ears, which is too bad I think. Sure I come on to these boards and poke a little fun at guys like you now and then, but it is all in fun really. You will learn the error of your ways one day also. Needle guns and western coyotes are not meant for each other. To each his own I say. Good hunting to you.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 29, 2007, 06:30 PM:
 
Rich,

I know what you're saying about pokin fun.That's why I was ribbin you abit.As for learning the error of my ways with respect to the .204,don't hold your breathe on that one,the damn things(coyotes)just keep folding up right where they stand.lol But don't give up on the cannons if they work for ya.Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 29, 2007, 06:46 PM:
 
Hey Rich: for whats its worth i'm listen. And my thanks goes out to you and others for there advice...
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 29, 2007, 06:49 PM:
 
Rich, Im not that far away at all and would love the chance to hear and see what you got to pass on. Say the word and Ill make time to come up and take in all I can.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 29, 2007, 07:43 PM:
 
TA & Andy,
Coyote population is way down around here because of mange. It never was what you could call GOOD coyote country, but I called and whacked a few every year. I am going to make some telephone calls tomorrow, just to see if my old texas contacts are still alive. If they are, I may be able to get down there come March. All of the Game bird & animal seasons are closed by then, but coyotes and cats are still legal to hunt. I have a friend that would drive me down there. I am betting that there are still a few coyotes with willing ears down there too. Coyote Heaven is what I used to call it.
 

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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on January 30, 2007, 07:36 AM:
 
Rich: "JD,
Did you realize that you can call Iowa coyotes right across an open field, no matter how many trucks have chased it? I mean on a regular basis now JD, no amount of hunting pressure or other human activity has any effect. I read it on the internet, so I know this to be true."

If someone did write that, I don't believe it for a minute. Different situations require different tactics. I'm familiar with your situation because I grew up in a similar area. No, you won't get many call shy coyotes to come running across an open field to a predator call. If you slip in on them in their living room in soft snow with full white camo, with the right sounds, you can get most of them to show up close enough for a long distance shot.

If not, you can send your buddy upwind of the coyote and post yourself downwind where he just dropped you off.

You can't skin excuses!

~SH~
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 30, 2007, 09:04 AM:
 
Class action suit.
Plaintiff: Midwest yoters
Defendants: Foxpro and Ford Truck Division.

Make 'em pay.
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 30, 2007, 10:13 AM:
 
"No, you won't get many call shy coyotes to come running across an open field to a predator call"


I'll go along with that one. Caller competiton is a bigger evil that pickup trucks.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 30, 2007, 11:01 AM:
 
"If someone did write that, I don't believe it for a minute."
------------------------
Not in those exact words, but that was the inference. I think you know now who it was that said it. Some folks already know it all, so no need for them to come to the Pompass knowitall board for answers.
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 30, 2007, 12:57 PM:
 
So is the issue that Dennis can't tip over coyotes in stubble, hay fields or pasture or is it that some people hate truck hunters?

"Some folks already know it all, so no need for them to come to the Pompass knowitall board for answers." Looks like a one way street to me
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 30, 2007, 01:35 PM:
 
"So is the issue that Dennis can't tip over coyotes in stubble, hay fields or pasture or is it that some people hate truck hunters?"
---------------------------------------
Could anyone here explain to Dennis that this thread is about calling coyotes, and what makes the coyotes spooky? He doesn't seem to understand that it isn't about hating people.
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 30, 2007, 05:16 PM:
 
Cause+Assumed Effect=Blame

Someone tell me about the dynamics or mechanics of coyote populations being chased and killed by truck hunters and how that relates to distress calls and howls.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 30, 2007, 06:09 PM:
 
Greenside,
I must sincerely apologize to you sir. I had falsely assumed that you understood quite a lot about coyote behavior, and that you were only being a butt head. Now I realize that you actually know very little about coyotes. Wiley E. offers private instruction for those who are serious about learning the basics of coyote behavior and how to call them. He is the only person I can think of right now who may be able to help you.
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 30, 2007, 07:19 PM:
 
Well at least it wasn't until recently that I learned howlers could be used for more than locating.

Seriously, tell me what happens when those truck hunters kill one or both alpha's. New mates to find, new country to claim, new food sources to defend....breeding..... Does that effect calling??

[ January 30, 2007, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 31, 2007, 06:10 AM:
 
"Seriously, tell me what happens when those truck hunters kill one or both alpha's. New mates to find, new country to claim, new food sources to defend....breeding..... Does that effect calling??"
--------------------
Dennis,
Every coyote that is killed is one less coyote that can be called. Any type of hunting will disturb the coyotes. Deer hunters, pheasant hunters, coyote chasers in trucks, Yahoo's shooting at coyotes from the road. Calling disturbs them also, especially the ones that come in and don't get dead. I know a farmer over near Avoca that has taken 18 coyotes so far this winter all by himself. He hunts alone and on foot. I have a lot of respect for men like him.
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 31, 2007, 01:42 PM:
 
Well, since the intent was to get me to spout off, I'll make another post or two.

Yes Rich, I'm aware of the fact that truck hunters can be very good at killing coyote and that leaves less coyote to be called in. I also know of a good canine man ,in the county south of me, that is probably at a hundred o so trapped coyote for the year. That too is alot less coyote to call. Heard a story over the weekend about of group of southwest MN truck hunters that went to ND recently and shot one hundred and thirteen coyote in two days. That's alot less coyote for someone to call.

I don't think that's the point. I never have and never will call in a dead coyote. That's water over the dam as far as I'm concerned. Nothing I can do about that fact. Hell for as much as I know those guys might shoot or trap thirty,forty or fifty percent of the population!

My concern is the callability(not sure if that's a word) of the survivors. I hunt the first shotgun season and I know alot of coyote get pushed, but at the same time have gone out coyote calling during the second season and have called coyote. Apparently coyote have a hard time connecting, getting pushed around for a week, with a rabbit scream.

Kind of the same situation with the truck hunters. I've gone into sections a day or two after they have been run by trucks and still have managed to call coyote. Evidently a coyote dosen't think that it's the pickup that almost ran him over a couple of days prior that's causing the rabbit to scream. How could he even associate the danger of a truck with a rabbit scream. Seems like a real stretch to me.

A few years ago, we shot a double in the west river of SD. Both were wearing snare necklaces. I suspect they were very cautious about where they were sticking their heads but it sure didn't make them tentative about coming into a distress call. Must have a hard time connecting the two.

I stopped at Scheels all sports this weekend. Same thing as usual, A new HS dvd playing with GS and friends calling coyotes. Rack full of coyote call under the TV. Salesman has the glass display open and showing a customer how a new FX works. A couple of teenagers playing around with a CAss Creek.

A real common sight anymore when going into sporting goods stores.

We're in the age of the RA's and BS'ers, Custom Howlers, Boards that boast of fifteen thousand members, Celebrity hunts.....blaa.

Everybody's always looking for excuses for their own failures. Just human nature I assume. Think about that the next time you start screaming. Or get out your rabbit distress call the next time you hear someone post on a board of 15,00 members, that everyone is using rabbit calls and the only way to call them is with non-agressive howls followed by some puppy whines.

When we walk out of a stand, empty handed, we discuss in detail of why it happened. Maybe we shouldn't have howled, maybe only one of us should have howled instead of both, could you hear the call, do you think a ooyote could hear the call, did we get to tight and bust him out without seeing him.... We have a real bad habit of trying to figure out what we did wrong and apply that to the next stand. Works for us.
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on January 31, 2007, 01:50 PM:
 
Heard a story over the weekend about of group of southwest MN truck hunters that went to ND recently and shot one hundred and thirteen coyote in two days.

Where can this be read?
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 31, 2007, 02:22 PM:
 
"My concern is the callability(not sure if that's a word) of the survivors. I hunt the first shotgun season and I know alot of coyote get pushed, but at the same time have gone out coyote calling during the second season and have called coyote. Apparently coyote have a hard time connecting, getting pushed around for a week, with a rabbit scream."
----------------------------------
Greenside,
Good for you Dennis, you are starting to use your thinking power a little bit now. When you went out during second season after the coyotes had been pushed by deer hunters the week before, and you managed to call a coyote, did you wonder how many you might have called if the coyotes hadn't been spooked by those hunters? Sure you can call a spooky coyote now and then. Do you remember twenty five years ago when Iowa coyotes would come to a rabbit scream like a dog to a whistle? I do. I wonder why they are harder to call now? Our coyotes have been chased by so many pickups that they spook every time they hear one coming. The local farmer can drive his tractor right up beside them without spooking the coyotes. Ever wonder why that is? Some folks claim that a coyote never becomes call shy. They do. Can we still call them? Yes, but a lot more care must be taken when approaching a chosen calling stand. Our coyotes won't often come across those open Iowa bean fields to the sound of a screaming rabbit, not in the daytime anyway. If we want to call them, getting on stand real early in the morning before first light is one way to up your chances. Calling in last 30 minutes before dark would be second best. We will likely never call coyotes in the numbers we could whack out west. Too many people, and not enough coyotes. In this post, I am talking about calling the open farm country of Iowa where the only cover is found around a few ditches, terraces and a river or two. Oh yes, we have a few fence rows with narrow width of grass & weeds also. Calling up in the rugged hill country where there are lots of cedar thickets and such is better but that is for another post.
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on January 31, 2007, 04:27 PM:
 
Lucky for most of us coyote hunting is a challenge and only those die hard dedicated callers will stick with it. I don't call in and kill huge numbers a year but what I do call, I enjoy. There are guys that have hunted for yrs. that haven't called in a song bird and still go out. Then there are guys that go on ten stands and give up thinking it's a waste of time. Pressure is pressure but direct calling pressure is the worst. Trucks, hounds, deer, pheasant rabbit and what ever else hunters don't have near the effect that novice callers with bad hunting skills do. Ass-necks with $6,000 dollar guns, $900 callers and 10 cents worth of hunting skill kill the calling anywhere and everywhere they go. I'd rather have a 15 yr. old with a .17 HMR and an understanding of what it takes to kill an animal out there than ten pricks that saw it on TV and thought it'd be cool.
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 31, 2007, 05:07 PM:
 
Rich, all your doing is giving shitty callers an excuse why they can't call coyote. If you ever succeed in getting the law changed on truck hunting, what excuse will you give shitty callers for their lack of success? \

Calling sucks! Well we just need some snow and cold weather!

Calling sucks! Ya, the damn snow brought out the truck hunters and all we have now is spooked coyote! The list goes on and on and on and on!

Damn Democrats!

Edit: By the way, totally ignore Dennis, Everybody knows it DAMN near impossible to tip a coyote over in bean stubble. Just can't be done. A real fluke!

EDIT:Just read on PM that someone in Iowa saw two coyote out in the open mid-morning. What's up with that? I'm sure they couldn't be called due to the extreme pressure.

[ January 31, 2007, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 31, 2007, 05:31 PM:
 
Ya, getting some instructions from Wiley sounds like a good time. Even sounds like I could afford it.

Actually, I had(have) a mentor that was(is) very good at calling(killing) coyote. Made a living for awhile at killing Iowa canines and beaver. Never learned many excuses from him, usually just an it'll work or it won't work
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 31, 2007, 05:50 PM:
 
"The local farmer can drive his tractor right up beside them without spooking the coyotes"

The local farmers in my area shoot them right out of the tractor cab. Most coyote aren't giving a second chance. Must be a regional thing?
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 31, 2007, 06:05 PM:
 
Ya, that Avoca area looks good for calling. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if someone could get some numbers in that area. Looks much better than those hills.

I used to tell my son that if the western half of iowa was public land and if we could stop on the interstate right of way to call coyote, we could go from Omaha to Des Moines one day and then back to Omaha the next, calling at every place that looked good. I figured that we'd kill at least ten on the way to Des Moines and then ten the next day on the way back to Omaha. My son would laugh like hell, saying that country is too wide open to shoot coyote.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 31, 2007, 06:27 PM:
 
Edit: By the way, totally ignore Dennis, Everybody knows it DAMN near impossible to tip a coyote over in bean stubble. Just can't be done. A real fluke!

EDIT:Just read on PM that someone in Iowa saw two coyote out in the open mid-morning. What's up with that? I'm sure they couldn't be called due to the extreme pressure.
-------------------------------------
Greenside,
You fail to understand that the coyotes seen out in an open field during daytime are travelling from one place to another on their own accord. That is quite a lot different than "calling" the same coyote out into said field. Totally ignore Dennis? I have to agree with you on that statement sir. I am done with trying to explain anything to you. I wish you good luck and good health.
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 31, 2007, 06:37 PM:
 
You fail to understand that the coyotes seen out in an open field during daytime are travelling from one place to another on their own accord.

Yes I know the difference between an active coyote and an inactive coyote. One of them snores.

Sir, good hunting in Texas.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 31, 2007, 07:27 PM:
 
Smithers, thats the best post I have seen. I feel the same way. Although, some have other goals. You know, bottom line guys, gotta have numbers to be satisfied.

Im with you Smithers.

Ill never have the time to rack up enough numbers to make any money at it. I work too much for that. Im not in the right area to kill over a hundred a year, unless I hunt year round, which I refuse. Its a game. A game that trips my trigger like no other. I like calling coyotes. Killing and numbers are distant second. However, if I call a coyote, I do like for one of the group to kill it.

And, no matter what TA, the bottom line man, says, not shootin one from the truck on the way in or out has nothing to do with heart or will. It has no point to me. Might as well pop away at everything else you see that isnt human or owned. Same difference.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 31, 2007, 08:20 PM:
 
Andy: I work six to seven month's a year, i work long hot days and i'm away from my family most of the time. I do this so i can hunt most of the winter. I hunt pheasants and raccoons to pass the time till the snows come then its fox and coyotes. I don't hate the fox or coyote i just love to hunt them, weither i'm calling or stalking i get a big rush from both when they are comeing in to the call or running straight at me from being kicked up. I shoot my coyotes and fox for the fur and some extra change for the money jar. I like to watch coyotes and fox and i also enjoy watching them come to the gun. I know i can't kill a 100 myself but its fun trying....
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on February 01, 2007, 05:33 AM:
 
greenside who is this man from Iowa that makes his living getting paid to call coyotes in the state of Iowa? How many depredation complaints does he respond to average each year?
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on February 01, 2007, 06:52 AM:
 
Coyote moving freely on their own accord anytime of day. Makes for some real tough calling in the month of Feb.
 

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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on February 02, 2007, 06:35 AM:
 
Heard a story over the weekend about of group of southwest MN truck hunters that went to ND recently and shot one hundred and thirteen coyote in two days.

In regards to the story, not your report of it Dennis, that's probably just what it is, A STORY!

I doubt there is a coyote population in ND capable of sustaining those numbers considering the mange around the country.

Not saying it's not true, just saying I seriously question it. I hear too many of these stories to believe them without proof anymore.

~SH~

[ February 02, 2007, 06:36 AM: Message edited by: Wiley E ]
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on February 02, 2007, 07:42 AM:
 
Wiley

Really no way for me to confirm it either, other than I was told that from a good coyote caller from SW MN.

The story was that the group was from Slayton and it sounded like it wasn't a real big group. Came back with a pickup box full of coyote and a couple of pickups towed on trailers.

Coyote Wacker

Sorry if you got the impression that he was or is currently hired by the state. There was a time that people could make more money on fur than working for wages. I might be older than you think
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 02, 2007, 08:20 PM:
 
Dennis, If you did have any credibility you just lost every ounce of it by presenting that story as a fact. A "good coyote caller" told you that!? Jesus man!! Are you for real? ******* road hunters, not only are they a blister on the ass of society they`re also a bunch of liars!!
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on February 02, 2007, 08:36 PM:
 
Amen.

Sad thing is they call themselves hunters. Driving the roads, shooting out the window doesnt constitute hunting. Its shooting.

Most around here are equal opportunity as well. They call it coyote hunting. But hawks, crows, deer, dogs, rabbits, just about anything that isnt owned or human is fair game.
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 02, 2007, 09:46 PM:
 
Well shit Andy, I`m fairly good with numbers & when I first read that I thought to myself "my God, that`s a coyote every 15 minutes for 11 hrs a day for 2 days" but when I punched in the numbers it turns out that my math isn`t so good after all, it comes out to be something close to a coyote every 12 minutes, 11 hrs a day, 2 days in a row. SHIIIT!!! I like a good bar room story just as much as the next guy but Gawd damn!!! That there is some goooood numbers!!!

It reminds me of a day a few years back when a feller was tellin a story out at Cabelas about how he & a buddy had spent the night before hunting under a full moon & they alledgedly road hunted a 40 mile stretch & killed 98 coyotes with spotlights, I looked him in the eye & told him he was full of shit to which he responded by promptly turning around & walking out of the store which is the proper thing for a liar to do when he runs into someone who calls his bluff. I don`t know, maybe I have some sort of social disorder but I just can`t abide bullshit when it gets that deep!
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on February 02, 2007, 10:15 PM:
 
You dont have a social disorder my friend. Just common sense.
 

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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on February 03, 2007, 06:29 AM:
 
JD: "I looked him in the eye & told him he was full of shit to which he responded by promptly turning around & walking out of the store which is the proper thing for a liar to do when he runs into someone who calls his bluff."

Good for you JD!

Let me buy you your next beer!

That made my day.

John Wayne ("the cowboys"): "I don't hold prison against you but I hate a liar"

~SH~
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on February 05, 2007, 11:00 AM:
 
I suppose I could do the math, if a certain state shot 3,5 or 10,000 coyote a year with planes, if I knew how many planes where involved and the number of hours flown.

I probably used a bad example on the ND truck hunters. I could have told the guy who told me, to tell the guy who told him, to tell the guy who told him etc.... that he was full of shit. My point was that, Yes truck hunters kill lots of coyote and that makes less coyote to call.

The issue is the excuses that shitty callers can come up with to explain their lack of success in their own back yards.

BTW: Saying that a good callers said that takes nothing away from the fact that he's a good caller.

An now I'll take Cronk's advice, There really isn't any reason for me to be on this board.

Later
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 05, 2007, 02:58 PM:
 
Actually the issue is that you are saying that Rich is a bad caller & that pressure on coyotes doesn`t make any difference on calling success.

I`ve never hunted with Rich but I suspect he knows a thing or 3 about calling & pressure on coyotes DOES have an effect on calling success.
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on February 05, 2007, 08:04 PM:
 
Maybe I'm just thick headed, or I missed something, but I don't think that is what Greenside is trying to get at.

He's not calling anyone a bad caller, just pointing out that many callers look for excuses when they are unsuccessful.

While outside pressure can certainly effect the efforts of even a top caller, "sometimes this shit just don't work"

I'd hate to have Greenside give up posting here, I enjoy reading his posts.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 05, 2007, 08:19 PM:
 
I have made 73 stands this year at home and i have had no luck what so ever, its no ones fault, thats just the way its is and i except it. There are other ways to skin a cat and get the same results...
I too have enjoyed Greenside posts and hope he does decide to contnue them...
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 05, 2007, 08:34 PM:
 
Dennis, there might be some baggage from somewhere else, but frankly, I do not see why you want to bail on your friends, here? I mean, hell, you're member #10, four years worth of posts and you were with us on the original board, as well.

Honestly, I don't know what the hell this bickering is all about? I cannot make sense of any of it and I believe there are a lot of us that don't understand either point of view. And, you know, if we have six pages and we're still in the dark, then I have to wonder if this is a huge misunderstanding. Okay, we don't like road hunters, (as defined by shooting from the windows, right?) and some of us have better hunting than others, but so what?

It has been said that you occasionally need a thick skin to hang out here, but this is ridiculous.

If anybody would like to explain (via email) what is going on here, I'd appreciate it.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 05, 2007, 10:13 PM:
 
Well, I didn`t mean to step in the shit here, my statement was more of an observation that there is "something" that Dennis doesn`t like about Rich, that`s none of my business, I merely tried to seperate THAT from the discussion about calling pressure. I had no intention of stirring the pot but it seems that I`ve done it regardless.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 05, 2007, 10:18 PM:
 
Leonard; Its all my fault and i will take the blame for starting this thread. We have snow comeing tonight and i think my punishment should be that i have to go hunt coyotes in it. Its not a good punishment but i will try and make the best of it, boy its gonna be cold -10.
 

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Posted by scruffy (Member # 725) on February 06, 2007, 08:19 AM:
 
Personally I'd like to hear more about Dennis's bean stubble stands. Like can it be done on a flat field or does it need to have a decent elevation drop so your not skylined. Not visible from the road? Are you prone or sitting, etc.

I call certain open fields that offer protection to the coyote from "pressure". They bed down out in those fields during the day and also hunt in those fields during the day. So looking for an injured rabbit in those fields is only natural for them. Fortunately my area has alot of rolling ground that creates these "safe pockets" or "safe zone", whatever you want to call them.

I wonder if this is similar to Dennis's approach?

And I agree with the "no excused" approach. I know the coyotes get alot of pressure, but I have the mindset that I need to find a way to use it to my advantage. Coyotes are hungry animals, and "pressure" can concentrate them into "safe zones". Which I assume over time those safe pockets start running short on food? After I locate these "safe zones" I call the coyotes in, being extremely careful not the disturb the peace and alarm a coyote(s)as I enter the "safe zone".

In my current situation I only get to call on average 1.5 stands a week for November and January (December is crazy with deer hunters, I don't call much if any). So for November and January I had roughly 12 stands, had 3 coyotes come to the call, one died at the edge of cover and 2 died out in an open field. And when hunting with a couple friends we spotted one bedded out in the open while we were walking to the stand, tried to call him but he wouldn't come, I missed a 400+ shot, I then howled and kiyi'd and got him to stop leaving and circle me wide at 500+, cut the distance when terrain allowed, and killed him with a 350 yard shot. So 4 dead coyotes for 12 stands over 2 months (nov, jan).

And the two coyotes that died out in the open picked fields, they were shot on farms that have dogs run through them mutliple days a week all winter long.

I think having the mentality that there are no excuses, the mindset that everything negative can be used as a positive, will make me a better caller and hunter and will kill more coyotes.

I think that might be the point Dennis is trying to make?

Edit: sorry I don't have alot of numbers, 12 stands is hardly a case study to prove my approach works, so I totally understand if Rich or others say I'm full of BS, I'm fine with that.

later,
scruffy

[ February 06, 2007, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: scruffy ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on February 06, 2007, 08:33 AM:
 
Greenside,
Don't leave because of me, shucks I am just an old burned out call maker. Sometimes I say things on the boards that make people angry. So do you. No big deal. Your opinions are just as valid as mine. Hang in there sir.
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on February 06, 2007, 11:29 AM:
 
A few years ago I developed a little bit of ego, I was winning or at least placing in every stage calling contest and field contest that I was entering, and I actually came to believe that I could call any coyote that drew breath. Simply a matter of selection, approach and presentation. Then I began calling to coyotes that acted as though I had poked them with a cattle prod when I blew a call. They would literally turn and haul ass when they heard the first quiet coaxing sounds that I blew.
There are varying degrees of pressure and I am now convinced that some coyotes, in some areas, CANNOT be called.
Even blowing howls and other vocalizations will elicit only a long circuitous trip downwind, rather than an approach. Certainly an enterprising caller can sometimes station a shooter way downwind to ambush the sneaker but that is simply executing the animal rather than CALLING it to your stand.
You gentlemen that are calling to such animals need not worry about making excuses for lack of success because I have plenty of them and I am willing to share.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on February 06, 2007, 12:41 PM:
 
They can and will humble you, eh Rich?

Im with you. Thats what I was arguing with TA earlier in this thread about. I know we think alot the same, we have discussed it. To me, there is way more to this game than dead coyotes. In your scenario, if not in a contest, sending someone a quarter mile downwind to execute the coyote is pointless. Some will never understand that. Better watch out Higgins, TA will say you have lost your heart and will to hunt.

To me, just as pointless as driving the roads, shooting out the windows or runnin coyotes.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 06, 2007, 12:54 PM:
 
Well, I'm somewhere in the middle, Andy. I don't quibble with method, caliber (17, for instance) or electronic calls versus hand calls.

Maybe open reed is more sporting than closed reed or diaphram? Night hunting, or strictly daylight, what's right and wrong?

Much of these things amount to personal choice. I think a hunter downwind is a logical solution, although I don't do it much.

The other things you mentioned, drive bys and such, I agree, it's not cool, but I am not above bailing out and flinging lead in his direction.

Somewhere down the line, we will see some do gooder introduce a law prohibiting the stationing of a hunter down wind..... because it seems unsporting.

Control freaks, I hate them.

Good hunting. LB

edit: I had a visit with Higgins the other day and he said you dropped in. You could have left my 'shine with him, he doesn't drink.

[ February 06, 2007, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on February 06, 2007, 01:20 PM:
 
ego's/eagles;

I've tried my best to figure out coyote pop flucuations over the yrs. In my little hunt area[roughly, 3x10 square miles] give or take.

I thought[insert ego, here]. I finally figured something out in the last 9yrs. Every 3yrs, their pop went up[so it appeared stastically]. Regardless of external forces; prey pop, hunter pressure, mange, harsh weather vs. mild, wet vs. dry, ect, ect.

This yr, I figured out. They don't adhere to observed statistics.
Fall/Winter snowfly 06-07, proved me wrong finally.

I expected a high pop[well past 43-45 coyotes spotted].

So far, that is only what I've seen.

Greatest hurdle to overcome around here. Is overcoming the crusty loud snow. I'm still working on that. As I'm to pig-headed to quit.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on February 06, 2007, 01:38 PM:
 
LB,
Im not knocking it as much as I take offense to someone telling me I dont have any heart because I dont shoot everything I see. That pisses me off. Different agenda, maybe. I dont need to kill to get my jollies. The fun for me is in the hunt and calling them in. Now I like to kill a called coyote as much as anyone, but since Im not gathering fur or in a contest, I dont see the point in the other. In the past, yeah. Those days are gone.

BTW, I dropped in on Higgins in August. Not recently. Trust me, first time I think Im even close to you, Im packin shine. LOL

[ February 06, 2007, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on February 06, 2007, 01:48 PM:
 
LB,
Ill give an example from the campout. Now dont get me wrong, I had a blast. But made a couple of observations that made me chuckle at the way the human mind works.

One person I saw post later that "although there was no formal competition", in a longer post about the campout. I had to chuckle to myself. I didnt realize we were in a contest, period? I wasnt. I was there to meet some fine people and do a little hunting. Mostly socializing. Different agendas. Some come in a fever ready to see how many desert coyotes they can kill in 3 days. Some never leave camp. Some are in between.

No biggie, but everyone does have different ways of enjoying the same sport.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 06, 2007, 02:14 PM:
 
I stand corrected on the drop in; and as a matter of fact, I believe it was Gary, of the "no formal comp." statement, that had made the most recent pilgrimage, (besides myself) to visit with, and pay homage.

Good hunting. LB

edit: or was it JD and Brent, I didn't check the guest book!

[ February 06, 2007, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on February 06, 2007, 02:18 PM:
 
I have planned on dropping in and paying homage on a couple of occaisions this winter. Just hasnt worked out.

The damned weather here, there and in between have really screwed with my western hunting schedule this winter. I had plans, but too much ice and snow for travel. Kinda sucks.

LB, if you dont mind, email me your phone number sometime. I would like to visit with you.
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 06, 2007, 03:56 PM:
 
Beware Leonard!!! That shine of Andys is potent. You may never be the same again after a slug of that stuff. If by chance you don`t like it I`ll give you my address so you can ship it to me.

2dogs, if you discover a way to traverse that crusty snow quietly, let me know.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 06, 2007, 04:52 PM:
 
Sure some callers don't kill coyotes all the time when called in, some callers are saveing them for contest hunts. Nothing wrong with that, but once the contest starts they are no different than me, kill what you see...
 

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Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on February 06, 2007, 05:05 PM:
 
JD,

Crawling; I crawl straight armed on my fists & lower legs. I use my "lower legs" from the lateral sides of my knee's to the outer sides of my feet/ankles. Turning my feet inward [pidgeon toe'd]. It's very slow going, but deadly. Very quiet even on the loudest snow .

I always have 3-points of contact on the crusty snow, for balance & spreading my weight. Moving slowly & looking & listening to where I plant each fist & leg for crust noise. Before planting a fist or leg firmly.

-----------------------------
As for upright; I recently pounded down my snowshoe cleats & completely wrapped them in thick bathtowel. This reduced my noise by around 25%.

Also, I've thought of useing crutch's along with my buffered snowshoes. To spread & lighten my weight noise even more.

[ February 06, 2007, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: 2dogs ]
 

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Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on February 06, 2007, 06:30 PM:
 
hey ,shoot the hawks, they kill more phesants than a coyote ever thought of. truck hunters around here seem to have this thought that they are the annointed ones. Trespass does not apply to them,courtesy to other hunters means nothing,they are exempt from motor vehicle laws,. I absolutley know of no truck hunting groups here that are not all exactly the same. I will kill more coyotes alone than any one of those groups. The very last thing they are is hunters.They and their behavoir stink.If that is not being too severe.

.
 

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Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on February 06, 2007, 06:33 PM:
 
oops ,thought I was in the wrong topic but it just has strayed along ways from the truck hunting issue.

[ February 06, 2007, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: 6mm284 ]
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on February 06, 2007, 08:04 PM:
 
Tim do you have trouble with reading comprehension or just dense?

Ive said over and over, it has nothing to do with not killing called coyotes, its the over the hood and out the window shit that has no point. Get it?
 

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Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on February 06, 2007, 08:33 PM:
 
Andy,

How many coyotes have you killed?
 

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Posted by nd coyote killer (Member # 40) on February 06, 2007, 09:42 PM:
 
Just a quick note. The story of the minnesota "truck hunters" i have heard nothing about. I do know that last year a group that has been coming here from Minnesota for a few years was finally caught in the act (running them with sleds and pickups) and fined very hard. The numbers with that story are not achievable (in my opinion) unless it was a very large group hitting a couple different areas in the state.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 06, 2007, 09:47 PM:
 
Excuse the inquiry, 6mm284, but do you have a real name we might recognize?

And would you mind explaining "41 11 9606" as your location?

Also, what do you mean by the comment in the Optics Forum concerning your Nightforce scope "unpressurized at 43,000 feet, all over the country"?

And, just for the record, why did you suggest shooting protected raptors as a method of protecting phesants?

Thanks, LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 06, 2007, 09:50 PM:
 
Sorry Andy; if i'm dense what does that make you?
I don't think i ever said i shoot from out of the window of my truck here in Mn., but i have done it in S.D. on the way out to the area i do my calling in.. For some reason its legal. Here at home if i shoot from the road i like to rest my back against the tire and use my knee's for support. You need to lighten up a bit, i'm not one of those law breakers you chase after. You hunt them down according to state and fed. law and i do the same with coyotes. I'm just an old fur hunter that also happens to like pheasant.
I can also relate to what you are saying, but hey i'm not what you think i am....
Well i'm getting tired of this anyway and i have fresh snow on the ground and i'm going hunting..
 

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Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on February 07, 2007, 04:05 AM:
 
leonard,

1) no I am not famous like many of you

2)gps coordinates(41 11 96 06)

3) private aircraft baggage compartment to call coyotes (-71c,43000 feet,unpressurized)

4)to put in perspective that here hawks kill more small game then coyotes.Coyote impact on game birds is probably not significant.Weather is. Here like everywhere else killing hawks is not legal or advised.I reread my post,the hawk comment was left open to be read too literally, sorry.

[ February 07, 2007, 04:14 AM: Message edited by: 6mm284 ]
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on February 07, 2007, 05:03 AM:
 
Tim,
Im tired of arguing with you. Your not going to understand. Im good with calling it good. No hard feelins here, just cant get an idea thru your noggin.

2 Dogs, I dont know where your goin with this. I have no idea and would have to do some thinking. Its not been too many the last few years. I decided that if I ever wanted to be able to do things I wanted to do, I was going to have to get busy. Huntin 2 legged critters pays a way better than huntin coyotes.

Anyhow, if you want an honest answer, I can do some thinkin and probably get a ballpark figger. I went thru several years where I hit it pretty hard and got some really good numbers, as good as anyone I have ever heard of around here. Im sure its not nearly as many as some on here, but probably more than some too. My question still is whats your point? Is this a cock measuring contest? An attempt to discredit? Or just friendly curiosity?
 

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Posted by 2dogs (Member # 649) on February 07, 2007, 05:12 AM:
 
Quite simple Andy. I asked you a simple question. Ball-park will do. I also would like to see some pics of your Missouri coyotes.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on February 07, 2007, 05:57 AM:
 
Nah, Im not bitin. I can see nothing good coming from this, no matter what.

I will tell you this, I dont have many pics. Just a few. Mostly of my kids and things they have done. Ive never felt the need for hero shots. No more than mounts. I have a pheasant mounted. I have some skins on the wall. I have some pretty good whitetail horns nailed up, but no mounts. Same with fish, Ive caught some big bass out of this lake, 2 over 9lb, and never mounted one. Just not into that. I did buy a video camera and Im trying to get to video some hunts. Other than a prarie dog shoot, its been kinda tough to get good shots. Gives you alot of respect for Higgins and those fellas. I would love to have some footage of coyote behavior to share what I see in the field. I never understood the dead coyote pics? They all look the same.

I have thought about it and do have a ballpark figure in mind, but Im not biting. If I had any inkling you were sincere and just curious, I wouldnt have a problem. Given the nature of this thread and your past posts of "zing, zing, ping" or whatever you called lead flingin, I know its not. Your just pissed that I call bullshit on road hunters. Thats all, pure and simple.

Go huff a hole, 2 dogs. I know where a brown one shaped kinda like a starfish is you can start with.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 07, 2007, 08:57 AM:
 

quote:

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6mm284
new member
Member # 1129

leonard,

1) no I am not famous like many of you

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