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Author
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Topic: Aluminum welding
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted December 12, 2007 03:42 PM
Does anyone here know how to weld aluminum? With an old Lincoln stick welder? Does Aluminum weld pretty much like anything else? Just slowly crank it up until I can strike a bead? Or does it take something special?
I've got a cracked oil pan, and can't get it off of the car. I tried to JB weld it, but it doesn't stick too well hanging upside down.
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Dusty Hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1031
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posted December 12, 2007 04:04 PM
Tim, Aluminum has to be extremely clean on both sides to be welded properly, which means it has to be off your vehicle. Aluminum is best done by an experienced welder with a Tig welding machine. I've seen oil fires start from metal covered with oil while being welded. You don't want that to happen inside your engine. I made my living the last 20+ years of working as a steel fabricator. Aluminum is among the most difficult metals to weld. Fred
Posts: 346 | From: AZ | Registered: Dec 2006
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KevinKKaller
Knows what it's all about
Member # 559
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posted December 12, 2007 04:08 PM
Tim you are screwd! You CAN NOT Stick weld alum!
Jb weld only durtys up alum. Must be cleaned real well to weld. With the proper equiptment oil pans are tuff to get clean steem cleaners and such will do but the pan will have to come off for a proper fix
Hope this helps sorry it isnt a easy fix
Good Hunting Kevin
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 12, 2007 04:33 PM
Yeah, that's right. You can stick weld aluminum, but overhead, with possible contaminants leaking down into the weld, it will be next to impossible to make it leak proof. Plus, it's cast, and porous, very difficult! Any overhead welding is harder, except for oxyactelene gas welding/so, it's a lot easier to say it can't be done.
You have to remove it and have it TIG welded. Plain old argon is good enough for that sort of repair? Needs to be perfectly clean. Take it to somebody that understands welding and what needs to be done. You really don't have any other choice, short of buying a new part?
Good luck, LB
[ December 12, 2007, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted December 12, 2007 04:36 PM
Tim, Forget the stick. Aluminum can be welded with Tig or Mig process. As stated, the aluminum most be very clean. Acetone will clean it, along with a stainless steel brush. The problem is, the pan will need to come off in order to get it clean enough. Just a hint of oil on the backside of the crack will cause your weld to 'blow out'. Is the pan cast aluminum? Let me know if I can help. Maintain
Edit: Leonard beat me to it!
[ December 12, 2007, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: CrossJ ]
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted December 12, 2007 04:52 PM
Tim
You may be able to get it done with the jbweld but it will have to be very clean and wire brushed to expose the metal you may have to do a build up.it may take some time but that stuff is exceptional for patch work.welding aluminum is best left to welders with tig or mig equip.
PM
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted December 12, 2007 05:26 PM
I'm with Paul, I believe the repair can be made with epoxy.
I repaired a crack in my fuel tank, without removing it from the vehicle or being able to completely empty it.
Spray brake cleaner would be my choice of "degreasers". And Devcon epoxy putty would be my choice, over runny JB Weld.
An aluminum oil pan is a stupid idea. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted December 12, 2007 05:45 PM
Tim, you do need to remove it for sure, but if you do just go ahead & order the new part if it`s remotely affordable, changing the oil pan out isn`t something you want to do again next week when the next crack shows up, the pan has obviously been stressed so why chance it.
If you need to just slow or stop the leak temporarily until the repairs are made I would suggest a urethane sealant (vulkem to be exact) get some at the lumber yard or hardware store, I made a temporary oil pan repair 7 years ago with that stuff & it,s still holding......your mileage may vary.
Sometimes cars suck.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
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rainshadow1
Knows what it's all about
Member # 899
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posted December 12, 2007 06:34 PM
Echo... Replace the pan. Shouldn't be ridiculous money.
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RainShadow Game Calls & Custom Knives
Cougar E-Sound Library, Hand Calls, & Call-In Story Library.
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Locohead
World Famous Smoke Dancer
Member # 15
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posted December 12, 2007 09:46 PM
I'm a painter. Caulk it!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 12, 2007 10:19 PM
The only solution not mentioned is newt tails and toad warts.
Actually, for the price, some type of epoxy (like Devcon) is worth a shot. I did a repair on the auxillary gas tank on my Dodge, about ten years ago, and it hasn't leaked yet.
Good hunting. LB
edit: and, PS if it's the Range Rover we are talking about, a new pan is probably a lot of money. And, if it was a yound man behind the wheel.....better find some sort of skid plate for next time.
[ December 12, 2007, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted December 12, 2007 10:26 PM
Can't get it off the car, eh? That complicates things....
I have an aluminum gas tank on an old trials bike that likes to crack every so often. Any welder worth his salt won't touch it because of the thickness (lack thereof) of the metal. JB weld does not seal well enough to stop leaks, next to worthless, actually. I bought a special aluminum flux and solder for use with a gas torch that failed miserably, and cost a lot doing it.
Finally found a 2 part epoxy that fixed it and it has held for about 5 years.
Unfortunately, I can't remember the name and I'm several days away from home. I'll post it when I can.
Two cans taped together, one red, one black. May have the numeral 7 in its name. States that it is good for use around petroleum products.
Come to think of it, I'll be passing through the store where I bought it at about midday tomorrow. Will post if I have info.
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted December 12, 2007 10:27 PM
Yep just like JD stated, you will have to take it off to have it welded. I've never seen anything good come from aluminum stick rod, especially for something that has to seal. Tig is the way to fly for this fix.
The weld itself shouldn't be any big deal as long as the guy welding it cleans it very well and grooves out the crack with a carbide burr bit made for aluminum. If you just weld over the crack and don't "V" it out it will likely crack again. I've made lots of fixes like this and the prep work will take longer than the actual welding.
Sometimes though, if the damage is bad enough, a guy has to know when to cut his losses and just buy new.
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happy trapper
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1016
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posted December 12, 2007 10:51 PM
One way to fix it is to put an aluminum patch over the crack & weld the patch on to the pan because of the impurities in the crack it is very hard to clean the crack out. That is the way I have done it before & it has held.
The pan should come off to do a proper fix. Good luck with the job. Floyd
Posts: 17 | From: margo sk. | Registered: Nov 2006
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted December 13, 2007 03:41 AM
The car is my Son's Cavalier. ( I won't let any of the kids drive the Land Rover ) He hit a rock on the side of a pot hole. This is on the engine that I had just had replaced for him a couple of months ago. The oil pan evidently has at least one bolt that can't be found from below, and I don't want to pull the engine.
We spent a few evenings trying to find that last pan bolt, then a few more evenings cleaning and trying to get the JB to stick. I've just got a quarter sized area, that has en extremely slow seep, and I can't get anything to stick.
I'll look for some epoxy in town today. Thanks for the suggestions.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Locohead
World Famous Smoke Dancer
Member # 15
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posted December 13, 2007 09:22 AM
Uh, Would you believe duct tape?
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I love my critters and chick!!!! :)
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 13, 2007 09:34 AM
Hey, Tim. Rather than looking for actual screws or bolts, there may be a couple of hard to see, flush, locating pins around the outside edge? You might try tapping a thin chisel and see if it separates, and wedge it off with screwdrivers. It doesn't make sense to have hidden bolts. Be careful of the gasket.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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rainshadow1
Knows what it's all about
Member # 899
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posted December 13, 2007 09:37 AM
I didn't know the year or engine, but for a 2000 model 2.4 there's 6 parts yards in centeral Arizona with pans for 50 to 75. Just as a baseline. If you have a good chevy dealer with a service department you can call and talk to a tech, they can usually tell you stuff like hidden bolts, etc.
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- - Steve
RainShadow Game Calls & Custom Knives
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted December 13, 2007 10:39 AM
Joe,
The stuff you refer to is called PC-7, it's very similar to JB Weld (a metalized epoxy) but not nearly as runny.
Good choice too, maybe even the best. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted December 13, 2007 12:06 PM
Krusty, you nailed it. PC-7. The place I was at today had sizes ranging from $5 per pkg to $15 in 4 different sizes. Also PC-11, which you can apply under water......
I'd follow the welding suggestion above and cut a plate as much larger than the crack as you have surface area to epoxy to. Little bit good, whole lot is better.....
Good luck.
Reminds me of the Camero I had once, could not remove one of the sparkplugs with any tool known to man....
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Nahuatl
Knows what it's all about
Member # 708
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posted December 13, 2007 12:56 PM
I had to put my glasses on. I thought this thread was about an "Albanian Wedding."
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted December 13, 2007 06:57 PM
What!? it`s not about an Albanian wedding?? Well then, disregard my advice Tim.
Seriously, if all you got is a quarter sized crunch I`d clean it with laquer thinner & glob some silicone or the like on it, something flexible anyway, & never give it another thought. I imagined a long stress crack not a little rock pucker.
Anyhow, good luck with the wedding Tim, kids grow up so fast don`t they.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted December 13, 2007 09:00 PM
Wedding? Who the hell's getting married? Cripes, nobody tells me anything!
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
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skoal
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1492
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posted December 14, 2007 10:09 AM
Tim
My eyes arent the best either but best I can tell its the Mig and Tig wedding they must be from Albania.
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted December 15, 2007 06:18 PM
I went to Alabama once.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
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