This is topic Some Of Today's Hunters??? in forum Member forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on August 02, 2009, 09:42 AM:
In my condition I am gonna say it like I see it, if guys get pissed off at me, so be it.
I don't understand some of the TV programs I watch about hunting nowadays. I guess I grew up in a different world. Some guy shoots a deer and he high 5's everybody, then they all hug each other and before that they're all hyperventilating, wtf is up with that? After they shoot the animal they are all still whispering, drives me insane!
Before they all start hunting they have to spray everything down with scent remover, from their car engine to their butt holes. Only thing is, they forgot to spray their bad breath. What happens when you fart with Scent Block?
Another thing is they have to cover their hands, paint their face like an brave on the warpath and then they put on their neon orange vest and haul up their stainless steel rifle. Talk about being counter productive.
Regarding predator hunting, I've been hunting predators longer than many of these pro staff members and the companies they work for have been alive, as have a few other members on this forum. If you've ever noticed, most pro staff members are younger and better looking than us old guys who should be pro staff members (but we know too much)lol, we are definitely more credible and much better shots.
Thanks to a lot of friends in the predator hunting world, I have received a lot of DVD's that I have watched and a lot of books that I've read. I have enjoyed them all and laughed at some of the "expert" advice you get from guys from New Jersey and Connecticut and Florida where they are overrun with coyotes....lol
This post is my honest opinion and I don't care if you agree or disagree with it. I don't have a lot of time left so why not go out with a BANG?
Good Hunting
DB
PS: Leonard, I am going back to my old provocative self.
[ August 02, 2009, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: onecoyote ]
Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 02, 2009, 11:07 AM:
"What happens when you fart with Scent Block?"
Good question, I'll bet someone knows the answer. Just not me, as mine smell like shit, cause I don't waste my money on gimmicks.
Posted by Bob Mc (Member # 237) on August 02, 2009, 11:09 AM:
I don’t have TV here, and haven’t had for several years, but I know the shows you are talking about Danny. Here’s a typical scene I always got a chuckle out of. A hunter has made a successful shot, and he and 2 or 3 of his buddies are following the blood trail of an enormous buck, elk, or whatever. Suddenly they spot the down animal, and the hunter carefully slips up and pokes the critter with the muzzle of his rifle to be sure it is dead. Now how did the photographer manage to get there before them, and have the camera all set up and ready to go when the hunters get there? LOL.
Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 02, 2009, 11:26 AM:
I know, I know.
"Suddenly they spot the down animal, and the hunter carefully slips up and pokes the critter with the muzzle of his rifle to be sure it is dead."
The program is not a show about hunting. It is an infomercial, carefully crafted to sell products. Whether they work, or they are just a flash in the pan, time will tell. The stick in the eye is just icing on the cake so to speak.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 02, 2009, 11:28 AM:
Yeah, Danny. I get it. Just shake your head and chuckle at all the gimicks and actions of the DVD and TV crowd.
It's real easy to toss around all those years of experience on the Internet but back when we were starting out, you couldn't even FIND a place that sold camo. Now, look at all the choices!
There are not a whole lot of people that can say they were routinely killing coyotes back in the sixties, yet we were and doing it competitively. Kinda got that out of our system, for the most part and now, who gives a shit how many coyotes you kill?
Why, my memory is good enough to remember a few of these celebrity Internet predator hunters when they were greenhorns and now they have all the answers and the posse that goes along with the fame and fortune. It would be funny, except....well, you know what I mean.
Hang in there Danny, we are all rooting for ya.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on August 02, 2009, 12:12 PM:
"What happens when you fart with Scent Block?"
Never owned none (and never will) but it would probably kill you when you removed the suit at night.... if it worked like advertised.
Reminds me of why I always preferred hip boots over chest waders....
Good post, Danny.
I will admit to having bought a few coyote hunting movies but draw the line at the deer hunting stupidity. Sure hate to see this sport heading that way, too.
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on August 02, 2009, 12:48 PM:
Your right on target Danny. I don't get any of the channels that carry the hunting shows but with the little I do watch, I can barely stomach it.
The way I see it is the majority of the stuff on hunting TV shows is geared towards selling stuff to the guy sitting in the recliner at home and I'd bet to large degree it works.
I would guess hunting show marketing tends to target the 22-35 year-old age group which is the reason for all the high fiving, tricky handshakes, and chest bumping that goes on when that wiley buck is killed with a .300 Ultra Mag underneath a corn feeder.
I get tired of being reminded that I need a TC rifle, cough silencer, a scope with something way more functional than the standard duplex reticle that has worked for decades. Adding some cool camo that will automatically make you part of a "team."
Gimme a break.
Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on August 02, 2009, 01:29 PM:
So this is what I get for telling the truth? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
The medication made me do it, so I have an excuse. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on August 02, 2009, 05:59 PM:
What I'd like to know is what's up with the demented, deranged laughter when the video hero kills something?? It kind of makes the rest of us hunters look like slack-jawed village idiots to the non-hunting (voting) general public. Some of these clods are doing as much damage to our image as the morons who shoot up road signs.
What was it that Pogo said?????
Hang in there Danny!!!!!!
Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on August 02, 2009, 07:01 PM:
Good thread, I also don't get the hunting channell's on my cable plan. However every so often fox sports northwest has a hunting show during non prime time hours.
One was on the other day during my lunch hour, it was a giant commercial..Lol..As mentioned T/C Encore ahoy !! BDC or whatever they're called reticles & on & on.
This was before my time, but in the day i'm pretty sure plenty of deer & elk were dropped with fixed 4-power scope's & standard duplex retices. According to these show's that would now be impossible !!
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on August 02, 2009, 07:38 PM:
Ive only been exposed to the filiming side one time on a turkey hunt. What the video shows is nothing at all like what happened. It took an hour or better of out takes being filmed to get me looking excited enough for the film. Or at least Im told.
I walked out, like I always do, and stood on the floppin birds head til he quit. I didnt know you are supposed to run out the the bird hollering like a fuckin retard. I always wondered how they got the shooter talkin, flippin off the safety and the animal all on the same shot. Hell, they would have to have 7 cameramen on the scene.
Anyway, hunting shows are bullshit. I do like Les Johnsons show. However, it would be MUCH better with less out take filming. Just film the damned hunt Les, if you read this, and it will be much better. You kill enough coyotes that you could easily do away with the bullshit and have 3-4 kills per show instead of 1 or 2.
As for the commercials, I wish we could watch Les, for example, hunt for a half hour uninterrupted. But he wouldnt have a show for long. Maybe do some plugs during the show and less commercials?
My son watches all the shows, I cant hardly stand them.
Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 02, 2009, 09:40 PM:
http://www.predatorquest.com/tvepisodes.asp
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on August 03, 2009, 07:47 AM:
The actual impact shot that downs the animal is probably the only real thing that happens while filming these shows. The safety going off and the prehunt decussion about strategy is usually filmed post kill. That is why these guys always know that the animal is going to come right down this creek bed from the west. You don't really think they are all that good do you.
Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on August 03, 2009, 02:59 PM:
The format followed by today's video editing is a direct result of their extensive research and input from marketing focus groups. They *are* conveying their message (products/services/fame) to their *target* audience in the most effective and efficient way.
The problem, for guys like us, is we're not in the "Target" audience so we miss the intention. A show edited in a manor that we'd appreciate would probably never make it past "marketing approval". Our "version" of hunting is too boring, too simple, too relaxed and too bloody for mainstream sportsmen in the US today. They need tips, products, cut-aways, women, intense music and unbridled enthusiasm to keep them focused and attentive for 21 minutes. The "Reality TV" craze of the last 5-10 years has molded people's expectations to the point they want to see their alarm clock going off and their truck running low on gas moreso than the oxygenation of blood on an arrow.
Having spent a little time working on some of these shows, it turns my stomach to watch them anymore. While on vacation last week I had access to cable for the first time in a couple years... and I saw half a dozen shows. On average, each show contained 4-8 minutes of actual hunting footage. Typical of todays deer shows. After ever commercial you had to re-live the previous 45 seconds of film... only to realize that the actual "Shot" was the same clip they'd used during the commercial and opening promo-clip.
I notice enough details that I cannot enjoy the shows. A man shoots a deer with a bow, gets out of his tree, tracks the deer and all-of-a-sudden a wedding ring appears on his hand for the first time as he lifts the deers head. The outfitter walks up in his church clothes... as if he was attending to other business... but he already has fresh blood on his hands from where he'd helped drag the deer into better lighting.
The problem, IMHO, is not that the editing process has been taken to this level. The problem is, it's hitting home perfectly with the majority of today's sportsmen. They want to see a Mossy Oak logo at every opportunity, they want to hear that 4 layers of Scent Lock is better than 3, and they want to see a guy playing with his Iphone from a treestand.
[ August 03, 2009, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Jrbhunter ]
Posted by Steve Craig (Member # 12) on August 04, 2009, 06:03 PM:
Danny....good post
Jason....AMEN
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on August 04, 2009, 09:30 PM:
A buddy and I were just talking about this today at work. I also cannot stand the high-fiving and screaming, it's ridiculus, manufactured over-reaction.
Most people you see nowdays, especially young guys, are " Outdoor Channel" hunters, complete with every gadget made.
Im also tired of being told if I dont use a range finder on every animal, even coyotes, Im unethical, another Outdoor Channel indoctration.
One of the worst new shows is "Raw and Wild", the one with the Navy seal sniper and the exibition shooter guy. Holy cow that show blows.
Regarding Predator Quest, and all hunting shows, Andy L is right on, just film a regular hunt rack up some kills, do it like you got money ridin' on it.
Good topic Danny.
[ August 04, 2009, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 05, 2009, 07:56 PM:
As a rule, most of the shows I see on The Sportsmans Channel are deer and elk hunters down south and since my arch enemy/ nemesis is a self-professed "Georgeuh boy!", the southern drawl just pisses me off. But, when I do choose to watch a hunting video, it's usually calling and, moreso than not, it's one of Les's. A guy just needs to ignore all the run-up video and not concern yourself that all that was taped after the shot. Yeah, I know. That's hard to do sometimes. But, and this is what I like about PQ DVD's, there are things to be noted in that footage that Les won't mention, but that can be helpful nonetheless. By the end of the video, I can't often tell you anything he said, but I can tell you how he did this or that in a way that was different than what I've seen done before.
As far as the high-fiving goes, I get as annoyed as the next guy about that on TV, but since my regular gunner went and enlisted in the service, I've been hunting with a new guy and every time he kills a coyote, he gets excited enough that if you didn't know any better, all that jabbering and laughing would lead you to believe that he actually enjoys calling and shooting coyotes. 'Bout the third time I put coyotes in front of us and we connected, his reaction reminded me what drew me into the game in the first place - because it's fun. If it ever gets to be all business, and if the time ever comes when I don't feel that post-shot rush for having set up to do something, then doing it, I guess it'll be time to find another hobby.
I don't believe for one second that every one of you guys, in the fleeting moments after you hear bullet hitting bone, don't say a little "YES!!!" deep down inside. If not, why do you even go?
[ August 05, 2009, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 05, 2009, 08:57 PM:
Lance, a "thumbs up" or a shit eating grin or a compliment like "nice shot", or anything similiar is perfectly acceptable, when you kill an animal or two. And, not following routine stuff either.
What we are talking about on TV is the end zone dance, the chest bumps and high and low fives; over routine kills, just for the camera.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on August 06, 2009, 08:20 AM:
A bit of excitement is understandable, as is a bit of pride in a job well done when the plan comes together. Even more so after a dry spell. And yeah, I undestand that dealing with the problems created by the camera ups the ante.
However;
It's the 'End Zone Dances w/Taunting' that makes me wonder how many [__________] - fill in blank, this guy has ever killed. I would rather see less gloating & more explaining as to why the stand was set up the way it was. If the video hero educates me & entertains me, I'm much more likely to pay attention when he tries to sell me something.
Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on August 06, 2009, 10:21 AM:
"Treat your first like your last, your last like your first, and never convince yourself that anybody else gives a shit."
While I'd like to say a cowboy told me that about bounty hunting in the Old West... it was a 40 year senior engineer wearing an Armani suit. We were standing at a ribbon-cutting ceremony for a project I’d spent an assload of time on, but his words have proven true throughout all ventures in life.
On those days I expected to stack fur but only scrounged up a single hungry pup… I think of his words. I may never do that again: and that’s reason enough to celebrate. On those magical days where I end up with half a dozen in the truck by dinner, I reflect on the humility of all the blank stands that got me there. That usually keeps my fist pumping to a minimum.
Hunting is both a private endeavor and a social event: where that line is drawn seems to deviate from one man to another.
I think there’s a direct correlation to the attitudes of today’s hunters and the longevity of their calling careers. Someone used “Flash in the pan” and I think that’s fairly fitting. The problem is, with the volume and organization of predator callers, so goes the future of our sport. The Indiana Deer Hunters Association is currently sponsoring 4 items that would handicap our state’s predator callers… I fear that in 10 years they’ll have their way with us if nothing changes. Leonard knows, we have a lot of “elite hunters” in our ranks.
PS: Lone Howl, that “Raw & Wild” is one of the shows I saw last week (409 yard kill). Another one was hunting whitetails in Old Mexico. That was the first free-range hunt that’s actually turned my stomach… unbelievable.
[ August 06, 2009, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Jrbhunter ]
Posted by Daryl (Member # 3451) on August 06, 2009, 11:03 AM:
quote:
"What happens when you fart with Scent Block?"
I'd imagine it works a lot like a sleeping bag; it seals it all up nice and tight for when you get back home (most of us have been in hunting camps where it all hits you in the morning when everyone gets up?). Then you can go home, get out of the suit, and share it with whoever's around to enjoy the event of your return.
Or, providing their wife isn't into such things, maybe all the guys can unzip their suits on the way home, and can share it with one another. You know, good quality "guy time" with the know-it-alls.
Ok, so I have a sick sense of humor.
I wouldn't really know about such things. I quit wearing skunk scent when calling after I got it on my boots one time back in about 1982. There were a lot of skunks outside of classroom windows at Buena High School that day, and no one could seem to locate them.
I'm sure sorry to hear of your health, Danny. You're a good guy, no matter what you say about yourself.
Daryl
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 06, 2009, 02:50 PM:
My first response to Leonard's follow up was "Who says any of this is routine to those guys?" We've all seen the deer hunter wannabe a coyote hunter and listened to them tell us how this and that is how you do this calling thing. More times than I care to count, this same guy goes out and on his first trip, kills a coyote. All but convinces himself that he's the "schnizzle" when it comes to coyotes. Of course, he's quite a bit more humble a month later when he's still failed to score another notch on the totem.
In the event anyone in the video business is listening, here's a suggestion of how I think a video could be made very educationable for watchers. Show a wide panning view of the country you're calling. Then, show a Virtual Earth or Google Earth image of the same area (maybe a split image with the ground level look on one side and the up top view on the other, allowing the viewer to get a handle on what's out in front of you) and pinpoint where you'll be calling from, the wind direction, features of neighboring properties such as creeks, rivers, bluffs, ridgelines, canyons or other drainages that you expect to influence your stand, show the call or calls you'll be using and explain in advance the litany of different things that go into your decision to call at that spot at that time. The, show the stand being called. Pan with the camera. Show the shot. If you have to edit in all the post-roll stuff, do so but don't make it take up fifteen minutes of the show. Keep the music turned down so the viewer can hear the call, its cadence, volume and style. If you have the guts to really teach the viewer something, quit leaving out some of the special "trick" stuff you do rather than leading the viewer to believe that a simple jackrabbit distress is all it takes regardless of where you're setting up. It has been my experience that the people I have taught to call think more of me as a teacher and mentor if I can show them not only that I can call and kill a coyote or thirty, but that they can seal the deal as well because I give them enough to do the job and don't leave critical points out on purpose just so I can look good in the longrun..
After the shot, much like Les does on his show, take a moment to explain to the viewer what you did that worked and why, how your strategy unfolded, or, if necessary, how things went to crap, and most importantly, why. Maybe even go back to the Virtual Earth frame and show the coyote's approach and how it correlated with the topography, etc..
These are great educational oportunities for which most viewers that sincerely want to become better callers hunger, yet no one seems to be willing to see that, let alone fill that need.
Sure, a single stand would pretty much consume one 22-minute show, but anyone who knew a thing about what they were watching would recognize that they're viewing a clinic rather than a killing and the information gleaned from that one episode could be beneficial for years to come, or at the very least, fill in a void or two in your information base.
If you wanna be all excited and have a shake in your voice from the adrenalin rush, fine, but try to gimme something I can use so listening to that crap becomes more tolerable.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 06, 2009, 03:20 PM:
Along the same lines, I have said privately, a number of times that Higgins' footage of coyotes hanging around downwind would be a hell of a lot more effective if they first did a pan and said, straight out, in no uncertain terms that the wind is blowing "that a way" so that when he films a coyote yapping at him from downwind of his location, people already know, and they also saw the coyote as he approached and as he circled downwind. That is a lot more effective than telling the viewer that the coyote is downwind while yapping. Even the few times he sprays mist, it is difficult to tell exactly which way it is heading.
Free idea. Film a night stand. Spray some mist and pick up eyes from any direction then continue to film as the coyote runs straight downwind...and then a "BANG". Any reasonably intelligent person can connect the dots.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on August 06, 2009, 04:25 PM:
Yeah Lance, I almost forgot, the music, keep the music to a minimum for sure, as well as the whispering. I dont want to hear 15 minutes of whispering to the camera.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 06, 2009, 10:12 PM:
quote:
as well as the whispering. (Lone Howl)
That's what's so funny about Byron's videos. The guy just can't shut up, on stand, according to reliable sources. And, it ain't whispering. He yaks like coyotes are stone deaf. Says, voices don't alarm coyotes.......
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on August 07, 2009, 07:36 PM:
Well, they alarm me, Id tell em to shut the F up.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 08, 2009, 10:01 AM:
My theory on why Byron has a slightly warped view on coyote hunting, in general.
You know he is quite a talented artist. His occupation is fabricating and building fancy gates for Texas ranches. I've seen his album. Cutouts in the metal forming animals and scenes, really well done. But, since this is Texas and these will be locked gates replacing other locked gates, the coyotes are extremely bold.
Some of us, I'm sure, have been doing stuff out in the boonies, like changing a tire, or maybe even pulling fur from the night before, when you look up and there is a coyote, curiously watching what you are doing. It is an animal's ability to know when they aren't the focus of human attention, especially an animal as smart as a coyote.
So, there's Byron, working his little butt off, and occasionally, a coyote will just wander by, and other times he could be standing there for quite a while, as long as the human activity continues to be hammering and welding; along with a lot of Texan chatter, (BS).
Somehow, Mr South decided that these tame coyotes were not afraid of voices because they seemed to watch him working all the time and he is anything but quiet.
That also is how he adds up his years of experience....ten years of fence building and three years of coyote videos, times two, equals thirty years of coyote hunting experience. (in round numbers) lol
And now, the guy has a Remington rifle named after him? Man! I do not get it? I guess experience, talent and knowledge is less important than being a bullshit artist?
How ironic! BullShit and BS, same initials!
Good hunting. LB
[ August 08, 2009, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 08, 2009, 04:36 PM:
I don't know BS well enough, to even know he actually had a job.
[ August 08, 2009, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on August 08, 2009, 08:08 PM:
I've been predator hunting 6 or 7 years now and Im 59 so thats 66 years of experience! Right Leonard.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 09, 2009, 12:18 AM:
Yeah, I guess so? You're talking dog years, right? Maybe that's how bs adds? Same with George's little doo rag buddy, GG. They throw darts at a board. Yeow sa, I just got a double 15! That's thirty years experience, partner!
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on August 09, 2009, 06:51 AM:
I'm pretty sure i've seen it all now.Picture this Michael Waddell riding up a dark and dampened street on a custom chopper wearing fasionable street camo,does a burnout leaving a scent lock logo on the street. the camera pans down to his feet on the pegs and shows boots in a combo of black leather and camo insets advertising the 'new brotherhood boots' from scent lock with realtree camo.WTF
I like camo and wear it all the time even in some of my regular clothes but what the hell is this!
[ August 09, 2009, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: Paul Melching ]
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 09, 2009, 07:46 AM:
Look, like moon boots. No thanks.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 09, 2009, 08:07 AM:
What am I missing?
Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 09, 2009, 08:33 AM:
A vivid imagination
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 09, 2009, 09:20 AM:
Oh? No imagination, you say?
Well picture this? We settle the long running dispute between you and "pussgut" just like the wrassling match between Borat and his producer buddy....naked, on a bed, on the floor, crotch grabbing and hair pulling (what you have of it?) legal!
I's pay to watch that.
Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 09, 2009, 09:59 AM:
That's not imagination, that my friend, is a nightmare!!
There can be no physical contact with pussgut, he has medical conditions that could be fatal.
[ August 09, 2009, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on August 09, 2009, 10:17 AM:
c'mon Dan ,I had real visual goin for a minute there!
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on August 09, 2009, 11:17 AM:
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 09, 2009, 03:25 PM:
I'd watch, too, but only if we get to use the little blurry thingy to hide the really bad parts. Don't need none of that. That part was funnier than hell, but I was still embarassed to have my wife watching it. I'm a prude. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 09, 2009, 09:47 PM:
I don't care what you say, the mental image of
Dan der roo squirming around naked, two out of three falls with Redfrog like in that movie just seems totally the way to "handle" their differences. Bwah hahaha.
Dan must be given a slight advantage because Redfrog has a lot of hair to pull, and that dirty beard, whereas Dan has almost no hair and that little cookie duster would be hard to grab, as well. Within minutes, they would both start fighting dirty, kinda like those Greek Olympians.
Deserves serious consideration.
Good hunting. LB
Oh man! Just think about it....I'm dyin' here!~
Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on August 10, 2009, 08:50 AM:
By golly you do have an imagination, and a hell of one at that.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 10, 2009, 10:03 AM:
So, you're game? How about the PMS Hunt in NM? That would really be a crowd pleaser. Okay, maybe outside is better, a city park? Just spread a blanket on the ground. We don't need no hotel room with a king size bed. Wait, do we even need a blanket? How about a kiddie splash pool, big one? We can call it The Ring of Death. Red Blooded American versus Fat-assed Foreigner. Or, Alien? Yeah, yeah! Bring the Vaseline. You know; so he can't get a grip on ya? And, get your mind out of the gutter! Start training. I can just see your naked Guillotine, his head in your lap/Hey, NO BITING, Jim!
$20 admission?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 10, 2009, 12:54 PM:
Umm? Second on the card could be The Professor versus Byron. Short work, of course, round #2 could be the Prof vs Nistetter. This could be big, maybe filmed for Spike TV with fuzzy crotches. I'm working on details.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on August 10, 2009, 06:48 PM:
A few more of these visual images and I'm going to re-invent the 'EverClear Martini' again. Must destroy those brain cells causing me pain.
Posted by kodiak61 (Member # 3255) on August 12, 2009, 12:06 AM:
I would like to sponsor this event. I will put up $100 towards the prize money.
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