quote:

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it's a respectable place, no personal attacks and no naughty words.

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Why is everyone so hell bent on being so politically correct? If you can't call BS on some of the asinine claims made, the board has no credibility. And while I'm on the subject, what is the need for a national predator hunting assoc? Is there really any benefit for the recreational caller?

Maintain

P.S. Reeves knows my feelings on it, I have shared them with him. Just interested in your opinions.
 

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Posted by rainshadow1 (Member # 899) on September 01, 2009, 09:12 PM:
 
As to language et. al. : When my sons are old enough to read, I want them to read the boards. ( I already call them over to see certain pics, vids, and stuff like that. ) They won't read this board on their own. You've proven there's a need for LB's board here. That's fine. I enjoy this forum some too. But I don't want my sons exposed to that kind of stuff until they're mature enough to understand the concepts of profanity, flaming, boobie pics, and etc. I'm therefore an example of the need for some standards.

As to the association.... well, we can hope for the best, right? I mean my dept of Fish and Wildlife values input and cooperation from/with DU, and RMEF, and NWTF... and it's resulted in increased opportunity here. (Turkeys were virtually unhuntable in WA, but NWTF came along and now it's a great hunt. RMEF can be credited with getting F&W control of a ton of now public land here...) I know it's a long time in coming, but what if it worked?!?! I'd say that's worth trying for.

(Where's that little two cents thingie?)
 

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Posted by Steve C (Member # 510) on September 01, 2009, 09:37 PM:
 
Does anyone have direct contact w Gary from monster? I tried the last number I had for him and it came up disconnected.

PS Rainshadow... I just about lost hope in humanity until I saw that someone is trying to raise their kids right and taking responsibility, instead of forcing the community to take care of the kid. Much respect.
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on September 01, 2009, 09:39 PM:
 
It's to late to change how I raised my son, it's done and old news. I never ever protected him from any element of real life. He saw life beginning with the birth of our farm animals, goats,sheep,hogs and horses, as well as witnessing their death, either from natural causes or the swift blow of a hammer or a .22 between the eyes, along with their butchering.
He was in our hunting camps from about age 8 or 9, and listened to randy old farts drink beer, talk about pussy and see the occasional joint of what he called "wacky tobacy" being passed around the campfire. I just didn't hide shit from him, he saw the good and the not so good, and I'd talk to him about it.
He is now a 36 year old man, a Master Sgt. in the USAF stationed overseas in the sandpit, holding down a demanding and prestigeous job for the Af. He is as soild a man as a father could ever ask for, and his mother and I am so very proud of him. He has a wonderful wife, a son, who is as tough as nails, with a love for the outdoors, and seems to be following his fathers footsteps.
Im not big on the sheltering aspect of raising kids,and just never really altered how I did my business around them, and thus far, I see no signs of any kind of repressed or retarded developement in either one of them.
 

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Posted by Steve C (Member # 510) on September 01, 2009, 09:47 PM:
 
Congratulations. I hope I get the chance to do the same when I (my wife) decides to have kids.
 

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Posted by rainshadow1 (Member # 899) on September 01, 2009, 10:11 PM:
 
To each their own, Az... kinda my point.

Tell your son that specific individuals (as opposed to a general warm and fuzzy sentiments) here stateside sincerely appreciate his service.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 01, 2009, 10:20 PM:
 
Okay, this is an predator hunting board for adults, plain and simple. We don't focus on, or encourage posts about boobies and/or potty mouth language, but if a member posts it, it probably will stay up. Even if I personally think it is in poor taste. I just don't much care for censorship, even with the best of intentions.

I can't stress it enough; be responsible for your own conduct here, I'm not going to police what people share with the membership. I have no quarrel with those that try to run a legit house, but I actually feel almost exactly as Geordie....what he said.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Joel Hughes (Member # 384) on September 02, 2009, 07:49 AM:
 
"Why is everyone so hell bent on being so politically correct? If you can't call BS on some of the asinine claims made, the board has no credibility."

I didn't see Geordie's comment so much as defending potty mouths or boobie pics at all. I see that quote aimed toward how places like PM have become...where you can't call BS on ANYTHING any more. Everyone is just forced to get along. So, for example, when you see a grown man chest pumping and hi-fiving about killing a summer time slicked out mama bobcat with a 17HMR and throwing and leaving it in the ditch, all in the name of "ADC work", the unbashful AZ-Hunters/ChileRojos/crossjs or whoever of the hunting community can't tell that person it makes him look like an idiot. IMO we need people to be able to call BS and tell them they make us all look stupid posting that crap on the www.

I signed up on the "bulletin board" for that purpose, and because I see some familiar names of respectable hunters. NOT for the "association" part. I pretty much agree with Geordie on that part.

Joel

(edit spelling)

[ September 02, 2009, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: Joel Hughes ]
 

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Posted by Chief (Member # 463) on September 02, 2009, 09:35 AM:
 
Vic - Didn't realize you had a son in the service. Next time you see him tell him that there is an old soldier up the road that appreciates his service and will buy him a beer, or two next time he's home. Kill all them bastards over there so that we don't have to kill them over here. Although I do think we have one living in D.C.

JohnP
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 02, 2009, 10:21 AM:
 
Funny thought. The only way Vic's son is going to kill any ragheads in the near term would be hitting a pedestrian while driving his neighbor's Ferrari in the Emirates. As usual, the Air Force has it all over us grunts, don't they?

Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for his service. Very much so.

And, Specialist Aaron J. Bosinski is leaving for home on the 4th of Sept. by way of Germany. How about that?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on September 02, 2009, 10:31 AM:
 
Since the subject has been brought up, and since I was part of the early planning stages for the NPHA, I'll take a moment and attempt to explain why such an organization has been formed.

First, understand that the NPHA is a non-profit organization. Therefore, there will be no political advocacy on their part; at best, they can provide and disseminate information to its members and member groups to assist them in knowing who to contact, when to make contact, and what to say when predator hunting comes under fire or faces political scrutiny at the local, state or national levels, but this is not their primary mission.

Nor has the NPHA been formed as a way to drop the hammer on any other online predator hunting community. Coincidental timing? Maybe. Intentional effort to shut down someone else? No.

That's what the NPHA will NOT do.

What the NPHA DOES do is recognizes that there has been remarkable growth in the predator calling community in the past decade and more. This is evident in the number of discussion forums that have been established dedicated solely to the art and science of predator calling. I submit this board as evidence of that fact.

For those of you in the southwest and west, the matter of calling predators is and has been old school for decades. Such is simply not the case for most areas east of Kansas where coyotes and calling are relatively new and show greater growth amongst the hunting demographics than any other form of hunting, and any other area of the country. In fact, the studies that have been done for marketing have revealed that states like Ohio and Pennsylvania are showing the greatest per capita growth toward predator hunting than any place else in the nation.

With the economy being what it is, and what it will likely be for the foreseeable future, it was the belief of a core group of individuals that the time had come to take action to find the means by which predator calling, as a community, could be stabilized. With fur prices in the tank, the allure of overflowing bank accounts ain't it.

What did this group of people see as the best way to recruit people into the sport and retain those already involved? Competition hunts - what those of you in CA, NV and AZ have known for quite some time.

Thus, NPHA has been formed. Amongst many different functions, NPHA's goal is to promote knowledge and education about calling coyotes and other predators, to promote the sport of calling predators, and to develop a system based upon the structures of current successful competition events by which competition hunts can be sanctioned and, IMO (hopefully) standardized across the nation.

Through NPHA, anyone in the country can promote and list your upcoming competition hunt events as well as serve as a place where callers from around the country can meet, connect with one another and correspond with others in clubs as they work to create and establish their own coyote calling clubs at the local and state levels.

I'm all about anyone here having the right to their own opinion, and I encourage you to form those opinions about NPHA, good or bad. Having said that, though, I also encourage you to do your homework and understand what NPHA is about rather than jumping to conclusions about what you think it might be about, and based upon those opinions and false assumptions, its value and whether or not it has any merit. If you're the non-joiner type, that's okay. But, if your reasons for not supporting others who wish to be part of this type of group are based upon false premises, I ask that you reconsider what you say.

In a nutshell, NPHA is hoped to be to predator calling what BASS is to bass angling. And, for people who have made their reputation on their history participating in competition hunts to criticize the formation of a group like this is truly ironic, if not hypocritical.

Don't take this as me going off on anyone about their opinion. Your opinion is your opinion and I respect anyone for where they stand on this. I just ask that discussions be based upon the facts about NPHA and its reasons for being created, rather than being allowed to wander off on tangents based upon conjecture. A lot of decent people - many of whom are not listed anywhere on that site - have worked many long hours over the past several months and committed many resources to seeing this project launch. I can assure you that this effort was not some wild-hared thought a few days ago.
 

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Posted by skoal (Member # 1492) on September 02, 2009, 11:19 AM:
 
I am hoping that the Npha would be more akin to NWTF , RMEF , DU , Than B.a.s.s. I just cant see ARshaw in a bowling shirt Emblazoned with sponsors and heavy metal flake on his truck. On a more serious note.
We have people with the desire to promote hunting and appreiciate input from organized groups at Az Game and Fish , something like this could help with such things as night hunting in Az. and shot guns for long tail cats ect. Is this
part of the plan for npha or is it strictly for competion hunts.

[ September 02, 2009, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: skoal ]
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on September 02, 2009, 11:28 AM:
 
As a federal non-profit, NPHA cannot engage directly in promoting or lobbying one side of a political or legislative issue. But, through NPHA, I hope a network can be established by which, using your issue as an example, AZ hunters can work directly with other hunters in states that do allow artificial light to develop their case and assemble the right information and testimonials to support their cause. Like you in AZ, night hunting is something I would like to see opened up in Kansas. But, up to now, the KS Dept. of Wildlife & Parks has been opposed to the idea. I got some excellent information from Randy Buker the last time I took a shot at this, but I can't say for certain that our commissioners even saw what he sent me. But, it contained some excellent information to support my position. This last unsuccessful attempt, along with help from others who have fought this battle, will only better prepare me for the next one.

I personally hope that now that we have a national group, state and local groups will form and a readily accessible network with easily accessible contact information will be assembled so that when I need to get information from, say, a night hunting state like Texas, I don't have to sit here trying to route out a credible source in Texas to help provide me with information. Rather, using information provided by the NPHA, I can go directly to the Texas group and they can hook me up with the credible sources I need for the information I want. Where it goes politically will be up to me, as NPHA cannot function in that capacity as I understand it.

As far as ARShaw in a bolwing shirt festooned with sponsor logos, ..... yeah, I wanna see that! LOL
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on September 02, 2009, 11:50 AM:
 
Lance, personally, I like it and am going to support it. But,I said long ago and still believe now, that a "tournament" approach is not going to fly, or at least get that huge for hunting, in this day and age, without drawing the ire of certain groups, obviously, but it may lead to other good things?

I was especially amused at your post in the custom call section regarding the cartidge plagerism That was a sweet( deserved ) dig.

If I can be of any help whatsoever to ya just let me know.Ill do what I can.
Mark.
 

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Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on September 02, 2009, 12:30 PM:
 
What an excellent point Vic! I was raised very much the same as your son, except I was a city boy. I did grow up hunting and fishing though and with dads buddies, grandpas, uncles, their friends, ect. I was exposed to lots of worldly stuff too. I have the best dad and mom anyone could ever ask for. They encouraged me in everything I ever did. I turned out just fine although not as successful as your son. You have every reason to be proud of your son. I am very grateful for him.

I, like Rainshadow have chosen to shelter my kids to a limited degree. It stems from a desire to please God raising these children in a way that would bring glory to Him. I am grateful for the world that God has made for us and all of its resources He's provided. The reason I have chosen to raise my children the way is simple, I want to honor the Maker of heaven and earth.

I am certain, I could never love my children any more than you love yours. I'm fairly certain your boy has grown-up exceptional and successful as a result of your and your wife's love and encouragement.

My children are growing up to be part of this world but not of it. Our Savior is not of this world. We are all sinful human beings unworthy of eternal life. Salvation cannot be earned by sheltering children and hoping they become righteous. No one will ever be good enough to earn that. I am raising my children in the hope that they will grow up much less a part of this world than their dad was.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I can say why I have chosen to keep this kind of worldly stuff away from my children. I suppose we don't share the same beliefs but nonetheless I felt compelled to explain the "Why" we don't expose our children to these things. It has nothing to do with their success in life, it has everything to do with our beliefs.

If I could have my son grow up to be the most successful and wealthy brain surgeon in the whole world, a donator of millions of dollars to good causes, sharing and caring, loved by everyone and politically minded like Ron Paul... OR ...a janitor that loves his Lord with all his heart, I'd wish the later for him.

Am I a hypocrite? You betcha! I wish that I were Holy but I am far from it!

[ September 02, 2009, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Locohead ]
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 02, 2009, 01:39 PM:
 
edited by George

I will ask my question on the contact phone number on there sight
and get my answers from the horses mouth ,

cdog must of mist my questions

[ September 02, 2009, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on September 02, 2009, 01:41 PM:
 
Mark,

I helped in the early planning as much as I could but had to withdraw when other family matters commended my time. As the principals become more and more public, you'll know more about who to contact to extend that offer.

As far as those groups that oppose the idea of competitive hunting, I think the time has come and gone for them to have any relevance. They've got plenty of other hunts around the country to pick on, and have had for many years, but have been a non-factor thus far. I have no tolerance for political correctness. What's that saying? - political correctness is like trying to pick a turd up by the clean end.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 02, 2009, 01:46 PM:
 
I confess that I'm not particularly wild about the growth and popularity of predator hunting. Back in the old days, nobody knew what we were doing and I liked it that way. Now, even the local Nevadans are calling coyotes and bobcats....what a revoltin' development that is!

Besides, I think coyote hunters are basically nonjoiners. National contests? I think the bunny huggers will have them for lunch.

In CA, it got popular to the point where we had about a thousand in the state org. and actually limited San Gabriel Chapter's membership to a manageable 75.

I don't see Bassmasters as an example of what I want from a club. I'm telling ya, there will be people (do gooders) creating rules and regs. we don't need. Needless to say, it's my independant nature to hate rules and regulations.

I am not slamming the effort being discussed, just sharing my personal opinion and that's why this board exists. For everybody's opinions; not just the friggin' admin wiennie.

(think JH or RF)

Good hunting. LB

PS I went to Parochial school, everybody that didn't said that Catholic girls were easy? Not for lack of guidance, you can bet.
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on September 02, 2009, 02:09 PM:
 
For the life of me, I can't figure out why we need to promote predator hunting. Why does it need to be turned into an organization like BASS?
Do you want it to grow into the circus I refer to as deer hunting?

Maybe those seeing the need are also seeing dollar signs. You know. Selling product such as coyote special scopes, AR's, scent elimation, and decoys. Lease fees for the contests. Predator Universties for the weak of mind (instructor included).

I have said it before. There is no glory in predator hunting. Any dumbass can luck out and kill a record book buck. Right place, right time, one deer. It takes experience, knowledge, and dedication to kill numbers of coyotes. Looks to me like the NPHA is a way for those who kill a handfull of coyotes a year to gain record book status through the sanctioned contests.

I have no problem with the forum on that site just the concept of NPHA.

Randy
 

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Posted by Joel Hughes (Member # 384) on September 02, 2009, 02:19 PM:
 
Lance, you just stated that I have no relevance, but I’m going to give my opinion anyway. And I also realize you can’t cleanly pick up a turd.

"What did this group of people see as the best way to recruit people into the sport and retain those already involved? Competition hunts"

Boy, sign me up!! LOL Competition hunts is just what we need more of around here with all this private land. NOT!!!!

"Competition hunts - what those of you in CA, NV and AZ have known for quite some time."

What do those states you mention have in common? Public hunting ground! And, if I am not mistaken, Leonard can correct me if I'm wrong, another commonality in all those states' chapters is that the driving factor of the competitions was not MONEY. Not so in this state. Money, money, money!

"Recruiting people into this sport" is a double-edged sword. We can argue it all day long, just like we can argue whether national associations benefit in helping advance our position to the public.

Good grief, I had no idea. Fighting the antis is one thing and more power to you. But creating more competition is nuts. My opinion.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 02, 2009, 02:21 PM:
 
I'm speechless, I did everything I could to destroy PMS and now another site has popped up. I hope this site is the direct replacement.

Hi Randy....

[ September 02, 2009, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

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Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on September 02, 2009, 02:29 PM:
 
Don't know for sure, but I assume the wildfires in California have something to do with Gary's site being down. I get the "Account suspended" deal when I try to log on. I know the fire burned all around Gary's house but it is still standing. I would say he has been up to his ass in alligators though.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on September 02, 2009, 02:53 PM:
 
Joel,

I applaud your opinion. Some people enjoy the competitive arena for just about anything - including calling coyotes. You don't. I don't have a problem with that. I'm not big on running my butt off for two days chasing coyotes through the mud either, but I appreciate those who do and enjoy being a part of the planning so they can compete.

As far as this being a problem in your state of Texas, I can see the reason for your position. But, like TX, KS is 98% privately owned. Same situation here, and much of that ground is being leased out for deer hunting, locking gates to everyone (something that we sadly inherited from TX). Yet, there's a great deal of interest in expanding the number of hunts we have each year because that is what people are wanting to do - enough so that in just four years, we're putting up 100 teams with a waiting list.

Apparently, you and I disagree on just why calling has taken on such relevance these days. I certainly don't blame it on comp hunts, nor will comp hunts make things any worse. I blame it on lease hunting and locking of gates, dwindling opportunities for local guys to deer hunt, and the resultant forcing of these same guys to look for something else to hunt where landowners will let them on their places. In our case, as is the case in many places, that's coyotes. And, as Paul Wait once told me, if they ever figure out how to grow antlers on a coyote, we're all screwed!

As far as increased pressure on the sport, it has been a normal progression. Just like the archery hunters crowed when the woods were full of gun hunters turned bowhunters looking for something more challenging and less crowded or when traditionalist archers cried because the racks were full of evil compound bows and high-tech sights. Today, it's calling. Tomorrow, it'll be something else. You can cuss it, but it isn't gonna stop it. In other words - you can either work with it, or you can work agin it. It was bound to happen, and it did.

Nobody on NPHA is making a dime, let alone getting rich off anything. I can assure you of that. And if being concerned about who won a given hunt and who didn't was no big deal, we wouldn't see thread after thread every January inquiring about the results of the Midwest event.

Like I said, if you don't want to be part of it, don't. I hope you will, but a lot of people sure get bent about little stuff anymore.

I'll have to agree to disagree, and unlike a lot of people, I guess I'm okay with where you stand.
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 02, 2009, 03:03 PM:
 
what is your title over on NPHA cdog,, are you the spokes person?

here in PA some of our hunt are BIG infract the biggest in the country, so were will the money be going that is raised on these hunts, lets say 4000 hunter for a 3 day hunt at 15 buck a head??
you have the hunts scheduled alredy so what is your plan for the moneys you must have it layed out already?

were is the membership moneys going??

just asking simple question, not looking to argue.

[ September 02, 2009, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by Semp (Member # 3074) on September 02, 2009, 03:05 PM:
 
"Nobody on NPHA is making a dime, let alone getting rich off anything."

There is no doubt a lot of time and money went in to that NPHA site. So it is hard to believe that the time and money was spent for benevolent reasons. Someone is seeing dollar signs down the road.
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on September 02, 2009, 03:52 PM:
 
..... and it starts all over again, but with a different board, and who give a darn if some money is made and spent, the world costs money to live in guys. If someone needs to go to work on a hunt, it shouldn't come directly out of his pocket. That doesn't mean that he's getting paid, it's just breaking even, would that be a bad thing?
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 02, 2009, 04:45 PM:
 
I doubt if anyone would have even brought it up without the BS that flew about on how the money was spent at pms before and after they incorporated.

I haven't heard whether the National site is non or for. They already got me for $40 and I gladly paid it to help offset the cost of operations. Its called putting your money where your mouth is, I may have to give more. lol
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on September 02, 2009, 05:00 PM:
 
Very good questions, George. And, I fully understand your asking them.

I was, as stated, part of the earliest planning. About a month ago, I withdrew as a board member. I am not their spokesperson, but am only saying what I think needs said to prevent misinformation from burgeoning at this early stage of the launch of the organization.

I cannot speak for the people behind this project, but can only speak to what I was told by them during my involvement and which I believe to have been sincere on their part. I will say that it will be some time before the initial capital outlay by individuals who saw this as something they believe in will be compensated, if ever. I myself, am a charter life member, so to answer the next question,... yes, I believe in it enough to pony up the cash.

BTW, I recall reading about one of those mega-hunts in PA in Sheri Baity's book. I was astonished at the number of participants and the amount of pay out available. That says something about the interest in this sport (or whatever you want to call it).
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 02, 2009, 05:45 PM:
 
I'm not sure what Joel is saying is what Lance is replying to?

A small point of fact, as relates to contests here in CA. We actually did have cash payments, way back in the early 70's, but it didn't last long. We had merchandise too, at one time. But, the prime motivation has always been trophys, belt buckles, plaques, engraved knives....in other words keepsake mementos, which has always been the main reason the hunts were honest. Money corrupts, there is no doubt about it. Gear? Hell, I never needed anything I didn't already have three of?

In my opinion, this is just like cocker spanials and labs, etc. suffering as a breed due to popularity. I can tell you right now, Foxpro is ruining coyote hunting. A million dipshits with a FX5 can put a hurting on a much smaller number of legit wolfers.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on September 02, 2009, 06:11 PM:
 

quote:

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PS I went to Parochial school, everybody that didn't said that Catholic girls were easy? Not for lack of guidance, you can bet.

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quote:

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the world costs money to live in guys

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quote:

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If someone needs to go to work on a hunt, it shouldn't come directly out of his pocket.

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quote:

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That doesn't mean that he's getting paid, it's just breaking even, would that be a bad thing?

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quote:

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I'm all about anyone here having the right to their own opinion, and I encourage you to form those opinions about NPHA, good or bad. Having said that, though, I also encourage you to do your homework and understand what NPHA is about rather than jumping to conclusions about what you think it might be about, and based upon those opinions and false assumptions , its value and whether or not it has any merit.

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Lance, I know that these comments weren't directed at one individual , but they really are a little condescending. First you applaud the right to form and express an opinion. You then close by mildly condeming those opinions if they don't follow this particular agenda.

quote:

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But, if your reasons for not supporting others who wish to be part of this type of group are based upon false premises, I ask that you reconsider what you say.

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quote:

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There are 100 members of the PredatorMonster board and all of them signed up at the new site.

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Negative. I have not, nor will not sign up as it's owned by JRBHunter. I can't stand that asshole..

[ September 03, 2009, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: Spawn ]
 

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Posted by Semp (Member # 3074) on September 03, 2009, 09:32 AM:
 
You are not alone in that assessment.
 

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Posted by skoal (Member # 1492) on September 03, 2009, 09:43 AM:
 
posted September 03, 2009 08:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 100 members of the PredatorMonster board and all of them signed up at the new site.
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Negative. I have not, nor will not sign up as it's owned by JRBHunter. I can't stand that asshole..

[ September 03, 2009, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: Spawn ]
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I dont think much of Bill Gates but I'm still gonna use the software.

Very good post Steve, I agree this is all new and we should give it time to develop, alot of hard work has obviously gone into this new board and it deserves a shot! What the npha does will be seen in time.They will thrive or founder on their own merits.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 03, 2009, 11:04 AM:
 
I'm willing to sit back and see how it pans out. I do not believe I have said, or intend to say anything that would harm the venture, besides posing the question; why do we need it?

My opinion is that the popularity of predator hunting is a direct result of OVER REGULATION of big game seasons in every state and the restricting of access, everywhere. So, what is going to happen with this huge public venture as it gains traction and visibility?

Furthermore, I read their terms of service and couldn't help but be reminded of our friends @ PM with every paragraph. I don't know? Is this effort beginning to look like "PM Lite"? Why does a nonprofit need forty bucks, out of the blocks? Their cautions about poking at their moderators and advertizers remind me more of Obama, than PM..... which didn't throw up all their "signs" before there was a need. (in their minds, anyway) It has the distinct flavor of PM packed into their TOS, point by point, like a revised edition.

Whatever? Good luck and all that. I'm not passing judgement. But, why would Steve ask us to withhold opinion? What purpose does that serve? I can't think of a good reason why we shouldn't have a discusion now, as opposed to later. I mean; why not now?

I admit, there have been, at most, a couple of veiled hints, but this enterprise was hatched under pretty tight security. Why is that?

This is just a good healthy "TOWN HALL" discusion and I see no harm in that?

Your thoughts?
LB
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on September 03, 2009, 12:16 PM:
 
First off I was not in the loop, but only because I missed the oppertunity. Oh, yeah, I paid too.

My thoughts on having a large number of old PM moderators on staff. This might be a good thing, Why? First off those guys were a part of a, hold your nose, very successful board. Some were there from the start. They had the oppertunity to see what worked and what didn't. They've made and learned a great deal form past mistakes. These guys are a huge asset, folks that have been there. We need to give them a chance to prove themselves, and really folks, how much is their effort going to hurt you or your friends. Consider this, the true leadership group is entirely different from PM.
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 03, 2009, 01:13 PM:
 
It might me a good thing!!!!did you bump your fucking head today kid :

Mike you guys that moderated Predator Masters failed! failed as moderators because Predator Masters is a mess now! you were defiantly part of the problem no getting around it , you Randy B, Crapshoot ,redfrog and a couple others , now its java and them other guys that are following in your foot steps.

they are as argent as you were buddyboy and on that power high the same as you were !
It makes me mad to think Randy B is a mod on the new sight because when it culms down and starts to run normal I will bet he will most likely be back with his assanine one liners that read like he is talking down to yea. you guys that ran PM into the ground thought you where one level above every one ells , you boys thought you had a good thing going. till today you speak out of the side of your mouth.
Mike i don't know you but my suspicion have always been your more of a computer guy then a caller..
the spot light has dimmed on you pal so do us a favor please just hunt and post your hunting story's and pass on your hunting skills, you already held the ball and dropped it ..

quote:

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First off I was not in the loop, but only because I missed the opportunity

---

I haven't a clue what you mean by that but if you were in the loop the static buzzing on so many sight bad about NPHA would be ten fold.

I to will be waiting to see how the new thing pans out and you can be shore of one thing i will speak and type my thoughs just as i always have ,

fuck!!!! if you dont piss me off

[ September 03, 2009, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 03, 2009, 01:45 PM:
 
Don't sugarcoat it, George. Tell us how you really feel.

Some places would delete flames like that but it doesn't happen here.

Michael, such a loyal servant, continues to take bullets intended for PMS.

Good hunting. LB

PS hey how about that little guy, Glenn Guess? He's a pip, ain't he?
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on September 03, 2009, 01:58 PM:
 
George - Very little of what you just wrote is of any surprise to me. I've tried to deal with you honestly and fairly, about all I get for my efforts are insults. Please go ahead, insult and run down the efforts that are being put into this new board. Your opinion means little to me. You are constantly spinning me as a failure, maybe I am, but I did try and I did do the best I could with what I have. Trying and failing is better than not trying at all.

About a month ago or was it a few weeks ago, after taking somehting I wrote and spinning in a direction I never though it would go. If I remember correctly you took a simple sentence and turned it into some sort of a threat. Then tucked your tail by posting that you were done with me and I hoped that would be the case, it was my hope to never hear from you again, but like a bad penny you keep showing up to spit in my face. Your like a drunk in a bar that keeps stepping in front when you are trying to leave. George buddy, I don't want to have anything to do with you, please leave me the hell alone. I won't chase your posts, please try not to chase mine.

I saw that you joined the new board and hoped you'd give it a chance before condeming it, clearly that is not the case. Why not give it a chance, what harm will doing that do to you, if it does fail you will be proven right, if it succeeds where other efforts have failed then everybodies a winner. It appears to me that you want it to fail before it gets it's feet under it.

You are right about one thing though, I've not hunted in the past few years nearly as much as I once did. There simply hasn't been enough time or money in my life to travel and my job keeps me working 5 days a week. I hope to get out more this year though. So, take heart in the fact that you got me George, I'm a computer geek, it's what I do 40 hours a week, but I don't believe I've ever claimed to be much more than what I am.

[ September 03, 2009, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: MJM ]
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on September 03, 2009, 02:12 PM:
 
Good times!
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on September 03, 2009, 02:16 PM:
 
Leonard - I'm not somebody’s fucking servant! I'm so god damned sick of hearing that sort of thing. Yes, I expect the new board to be much like the very best parts of PM. They should have enough experience to avoid many of the mistakes of PM. Is there something wrong with that being my eternal hope! I’m so sick of all the fighting and negativity, I want to see this board continue to succeed, I want to see other boards continue to succeed, I would like to see a significant change at PM, but there’s nothing I can do about what happens with any of them. Hope is about all I have left ….. oh yeah and at least one person that constantly nags at me for something I tried to fix but failed at, thanks George.

edited: to add the word "least"

[ September 03, 2009, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: MJM ]
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 03, 2009, 02:27 PM:
 
dont get up set yet pally i ant done

see mike there you go,,always playing tricks with your word ,

quote:

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go ahead, insult and run down the efforts that are being put into this new board.

---

quote:

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Your opinion means little to me.,,

---

it never has and that's the same tone you used when you were a mod

quote:

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You are constantly spinning me as a failure .

---

quote:

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tucked your tail ,

---

sorry mike unlike you that is something i have never done and will never do pal.
as long as you post in open forum i will contradict you when I feel its necessary or till I am ask by someone I think highly of to let it go .
do you remember your one line sentences in PM's to me with them three word,, (let it go ) if I was going back and fourth with one of your click.
you not a mod mike so i will have to turn down you request to not speak my mined.

quote:

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It appears to me that you want it to fail before it gets it's feet under it.

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where have I said anything that led you to come up with that quote??? if you look back at my post yesterday when i ask simple enough question that i edited because instead of posting it i thought it much better for the NPHA if i directed my question right to them.. your playing tricks again mike.

edited for my bad spelling skills

[ September 03, 2009, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by MJM (Member # 270) on September 03, 2009, 02:31 PM:
 
I am so done with you George..........
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 03, 2009, 02:34 PM:
 
COOL, HAVE ONE

 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on September 03, 2009, 04:07 PM:
 
You know DAA posted something to me about getting sidetracked and it was OK if it led to having FUN! Remember that? Dang it seems we've been arguing about something for over 3 years now that I know of.

PM is all but dead, this new board has several moderators that I like and respect. Alot of good guys are signing up and it could be a good place to hang out at. What's wrong with that?

I'm not sure about a National club that can't stand with me to fight but for now the forum is a neat deal, I'll wait to see how it turns out. Hopefully it will be fun again.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 03, 2009, 05:30 PM:
 
What ever this new site turns out to be its a hell of a lot better than pms. I will do everything I can to see it succeeds.

Now George, why are you picking on Michael, he did a good if not almost great job as a mod in that shit hole.

As I've mentioned to him in the past, he was ONLY a moderator. The board of directors make the policies the mods try to enforce. He put up with a lot of shit from that friggin pussgut bastard and did a pretty good job of protecting the members from him. It could well be, because of the better mods quiting helped to show the members what a asshole pussgut really was.
 

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Posted by Tater Salad (Member # 3480) on September 03, 2009, 06:11 PM:
 
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 100 members of the PredatorMonster board and all of them signed up at the new site.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Negative. I have not, nor will not sign up as it's owned by JRBHunter. I can't stand that asshole..

I am/was a monster too. I feel the same as Spawn.

 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 03, 2009, 06:22 PM:
 
Its not important if a couple of the members don't join up. ALMOST all did.

You are not only supporting a new site you are helping to remove the shit head at pms, by supporting a rival site. If that's not important to you, I wonder why you were a member of the Monster board in the first place.
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on September 03, 2009, 07:06 PM:
 

quote:

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Whatever? Good luck and all that. I'm not passing judgement. But, why would Steve ask us to withhold opinion? What purpose does that serve? I can't think of a good reason why we shouldn't have a discusion now, as opposed to later. I mean; why not now?

---

My thoughts exactly Leonard. All this talk of conversations and plannings from people with hidden identities. All of whom are fixing to unveil the total plan on down the road, all they ask is we sit back and pledge our undying support with out asking questions. All for the greater good right? You are right Leonard, it does have a sorta 'obamaesque' flavor, but I didnt want to make that comparison.

Steve, I consider you a friend, and have a lot of respect for you. Answer me this, why do we need a national association?

Maintain
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 03, 2009, 07:11 PM:
 
Welcome to The New Huntmasters, Ron White, er; I mean Tater Salad. Glad to have you on board.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Tater Salad (Member # 3480) on September 03, 2009, 07:27 PM:
 
Hey Leonard,
Thanks partner. I've been coming here for a few years and love reading here. I thought I might as well start doing some talking, but my old sign in information does not work anymore.
 

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Posted by Tater Salad (Member # 3480) on September 03, 2009, 07:38 PM:
 
Dan Carey said:
"Its not important if a couple of the members don't join up. ALMOST all did.

You are not only supporting a new site you are helping to remove the shit head at pms, by supporting a rival site. If that's not important to you, I wonder why you were a member of the Monster board in the first place."

I dislike Redfrog damn near as much as anybody. He is a prick of the highest order, but I don't see how helping another prick (JRB) is helping anything.
Isn't this board a rival site? Leonard has been fighting Frog a hell of a lot longer than these "Johnny come lately" guys.
My hat's off to Leonard for putting up the good fight, before it was the "in" thing to do.
It took the heat to come down, before the fair weather folks decided to start the fight, so sorry if I do NOT have much use for them.
If things were still going good at PM do you really think they would have left?
HELL NO!!!
I will stick with those that had balls to begin with, such as you do Dan. You are a pitbull when it comes to fighting Frog, but that doesn't mean I will follow you to the "new and improved PM site".
One dick for another is not my style.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 03, 2009, 07:48 PM:
 
OK
 

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Posted by Steve Craig (Member # 12) on September 03, 2009, 09:22 PM:
 
"why do we need a national association?"

Why Not?!!

This sport is one of the fastest growing sports in the world right now. It is growing even faster than deer hunting ever thought about. The train is coming whether we want it to or not. We can not stop what is coming. It is too late to stop it. I dont like HOW it is growing, any more than you do. I didnt like HOW trapping grew in the 70's, 80's, and 90's either. But it did, and trappers as a whole were not prepared for it and look what happened. Trapping is a dieing sport and due to a misinformed public will be gone from many more states in the next few years. Look at AZ,WA,CA,CO,FL,NJ, and a couple more I am missing.Once it is gone you dont get it back.

I would like it to be like Leonard said it was like back in the day. I truly miss those days too.
But reality is they are gone and isn't coming back.
If we dont prepare ahead of time with good strong solid REPRESENTATION, at all levels, local, state, and National, I foresee a time in the future of even more restrictions than we will ever imagine.
Dont think it could happen?
I would have never believed that well meaning people would have put the idiots and morons in Washington that we have today! But it happened right under our noses.

I dont want that to happen to a sport I love, like has happened to trapping. I would much rather be prepared, and that means I will do whatever it takes to protect your and my predator hunting rights. I feel a strong National, State, and local voice will be needed in the future.
And the future is closer than you think!
You asked and I have answered with my personal reasons.
The really great thing is you and I dont have to support it if we dont want to, at this time, or in the future. You dont have to join. No one is forcing you or me to join anything.
Randy stated ,and you agreed, that you are afraid there will be too many hunters, and that that is your reason for not joining the NPHA.
What is funny to me is that is exactly what I thought when all these Calling boards came on to the scene many years ago! Has all these boards helped or harmed predator calling?
Will a National Org help or harm predator calling?
These are the important questions, and only time will tell. And that is why I asked that we give it the time to prove itself one way or the other.
If it flops, it flops! But not because Steve didnt give it his best shot.
I have been blessed to have built 3 very successful business in my lifetime. Another one I started ,flopped. I did all I could to make it go, but I failed. But at least I knew I gave it all I had.
I intend to do the same with the NPHA.

Leonard, I did not mean to imply that I wanted no ones opinions. Not what I meant to say at all. I just want to see this thing get off the ground and see where it goes. Time will tell and all will be made known in time.

Now...I'm leaving on a bear hunt in Maine.
Later
Steve
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 03, 2009, 09:27 PM:
 
Hey Dan, who is the hottie on the bike? You rascal!

I'm with you on PM, burn the friggin' place down, anything is better than what that PM stink hole has become. I also confess that after a terrible beginning and tons of fine tuning, monster finally appeared to have a legitimacy; sorta.

But regarding a national predator organization, <shrug> at this point, it's just a refugee center, but with grandiose ambitions. I'm neutral, no koolaid thank you. It's just one more in a crowded field.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 03, 2009, 09:31 PM:
 
Thanks for the input, Steve. You and I have no problems. You know that.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on September 03, 2009, 10:42 PM:
 
Steve, 'Why not?' isn't really the answer I was looking for. I thought the 'why not' was understood. I too have had a successful business(two actually) and have managed two large ranches successfully in my life. I never climbed on board and supported something I did not know the objective of, and I certainly wouldn't, based on the fact that 'everyone else is'.

There is a bizarre air around this whole deal. We are getting Gibbs like news briefs from behind the scenes organizers telling us all to remain calm, this will be good for us all in the end. Why the secrecy? If you want to remain anonymous; remain anonymous. No more voices from behind the curtain, we've all had enough of that in the past.

MJM. I don't have one damn problem with someone making a dollar. As a matter of fact, I hope you all get rich. My problem is when one persons earning practices damages something I hold as important. You can bet your ass I'm gonna raise hell about it. Will it have any effect....who knows? But its not that important to you if you don't put up a little fight.

I'm done posting on this topic, for I fear I may loose some friends. But Steve, you yourself admitted to being leary of changes in the past, so you should atleast have some empathy. So, if there are still questions to where I stand on the whole thing(LOL),well.....never mind.

Good luck on your bear hunt Steve, and hope to see you in Nov.

Maintain
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 03, 2009, 10:53 PM:
 
Dittos on what Geordie said, I don't want to lose a single friend over this emerging national org.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on September 04, 2009, 04:32 AM:
 
Well said, Tater. The new sight may be great, but I think I will wait a bit to make that assesment. I'm pretty HM loyal and since I haven't been posting much anywhere anymore I don't see the need to register over there yet. So I am an ALMOST also.
 

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Posted by Joel Hughes (Member # 384) on September 04, 2009, 07:23 AM:
 

quote:

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If we dont prepare ahead of time with good strong solid REPRESENTATION, at all levels, local, state, and National, I foresee a time in the future of even more restrictions than we will ever imagine.

---

quote:

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I will do whatever it takes to protect your and my predator hunting rights. I feel a strong National, State, and local voice will be needed in the future.

---

quote:

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As far as increased pressure on the sport, it has been a normal progression.

---

quote:

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…there has been remarkable growth in the predator calling community in the past decade

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quote:

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This sport is one of the fastest growing sports in the world right now. It is growing even faster than deer hunting ever thought about.

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quote:

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What did this group of people [NPHA] see as the best way to recruit people into the sport and retain those already involved? Competition hunts

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What the heck? Which is it? The fastest growing sport, or one that needs some assistance in growing? It is obvious that the “sport” is growing fine on its own. So again, in that context, why is a national association needed? Now, if it is to protect our predator hunting rights as Steve stated, you might get my support. Competition hunts are going to protect our rights?? No, it’s going to draw even more exposure, add more pressure, and cause enemies at the same time.

By the way, Lance, mine and others opinion on comp hunts IS relevant. And you just helped proved it. I could break down your entire reply to me, but I don’t feel like pulling a SH on you right now with the quote-reply-thing. (Although with the long posts you write, I’m sure you could follow along. ) I’ll just point out where you proved my point. In your disagreement with me regarding the “why calling has taken on such relevance these days” you said:

"I blame it on lease hunting and locking of gates" AND "dwindling opportunities for local guys" AND "the resultant forcing of these same guys to look for something else to hunt where landowners will let them on their places".

Amen brother!!! LOL Thank you! Competition hunts will do and have done those things here, and I would venture to guess...even in Kansas.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 04, 2009, 08:31 AM:
 
First, any time you have a large group of like minded people you have power. We at that point could have an effect on the law making process.

The closed gate problem could be addressed by a slight change in the law. The farmers and ranchers in the US are taxed at the lowest rate available and then given other tax brakes and even then receive federal and state subsidies.

From personal family experiences, I know where most of this land came from. It was homesteaded US government land. Some of the patented land is intermixed with state, federal and local government land which is leased by the user and is locked to you. His or her friends are hunting your game animals on it!!

Texas is mostly privately owner. If the owners were offered a tax break for allowing hunters access to their land it would help open some of the locked gates.
 

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Posted by Joel Hughes (Member # 384) on September 04, 2009, 08:57 AM:
 

quote:

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any time you have a large group of like minded people you have power. We at that point could have an effect on the law making process.

---

quote:

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....VERY GOOD REASONS why we cant put all our cards out right now.
Steve Craig

---

I have a hard time understanding exactly why the drama? The whole situation reeks of STAR CHAMBER Central Planning. I wonder how I wasn't consulted? I mean, Gee! Maybe I could help, or am I too toxic?

But, here's the thing: I didn't wake up one morning recently, and think:

"Wow, if we only had a National Predator Organization, everything would be right as rain!"

I'm just saying....

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by George Ackley (Member # 898) on September 04, 2009, 01:58 PM:
 
i may have jumped the gun

[ September 04, 2009, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 04, 2009, 03:25 PM:
 
"Welcome to The New Huntmasters, Ron White, er; I mean Tater Salad"

LB, I happen to know Ron White, I went to school with him, not a sorrier piece of shit in the country ( I know a worse one in canada)and you let him in. He was a lunch thief and a girls locker room spy. Just what background checking system are you using? The last I heard he was a card carrying Communist. You are stinking this place up, dude.
 

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Posted by Spawn (Member # 3073) on September 04, 2009, 04:12 PM:
 
Went over and stuck my big melon through the door to the npha room to gawk.., reminiscent of eavesdropping on a bunch of old women yammerin'..
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 04, 2009, 04:14 PM:
 
God damn, Dan! This is a one man operation, I don't do background on anyone. I still have NO TOS, and proud of it. He answered the screening questions that a computer isn't able to do, so he's in. I deal with all problems one on one, you know that?

But, just curious, did you go to school with this Tater Salad screen name, that had, (did or didn't) have a different name on monster; or do you know the comedian, Ron White? Your post could use a little clarity, but you get a B+ and an "atta boy" for spelling. btw, I like your new custom title, don't you?

Also, did you take down the photo because of what I said? I hope I didn't offend you. Seriously.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 04, 2009, 05:27 PM:
 
ROF,LMAO..........................Tater Salad has to be a southern gentleman.

I like the new title, fits me to a T!!

The picture was of my X-wife and I should have never posted it. She hates this Internet shit.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on September 04, 2009, 06:55 PM:
 
I am a member of the forums on the new board, but not a member of the new national organization. I see some good in the forums, what with Steve and Leonard being there to help with calling questions and all. I also noticed that the board is looking a lot like P.M., and I ain't so sure that part is good? No predator calling board is perfect however, and I have no complaints as of yet. I must confess that I am getting burned out on this bulletin board stuff.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 04, 2009, 08:11 PM:
 
I don't blame ya, Rich. I feel the same way, sometimes. It could be a lot better, but people make all the difference. What makes these pricks tick, I don't know? Monster had/or has more than it's share of cheerless assholes; never a kind word for anybody. But not only there, we see them everywhere. Too bad it's not all one big happy family, but all in all, I enjoy my experience online. I know you do too, for the most part. I have met some really good people and that more than makes up for the assholes.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Tater Salad (Member # 3480) on September 04, 2009, 09:25 PM:
 
Shit! Dan Carey has me all messed up!! He's the Obama loving communist fag without a set of balls attached to him.
It's easy being a pit bull when you have the big boys backing your sorry ass!!

Thanks Leonard for letting me in here.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 04, 2009, 09:41 PM:
 
Run him off Leonard, don't let him talk to your buddy like that.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on September 05, 2009, 11:55 AM:
 
Joel...

Why do you post on these boards? What's your personal motivation for even being here? What do you get out of it?

Leonard...

Why do you invest your time and money into keeping this board up and going? What is your personal motivation and what do you get out of it?

Also, why did you compete all those years?

Simple questions, and I suspect, simple answers.
 

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Posted by Tater Salad (Member # 3480) on September 05, 2009, 12:17 PM:
 
Oh way to go Dan. Ya got pussgut on the ropes so now you are trying to get Leonard to nail me.
Don't do it Leonard. You know Dan is sissy in real life.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 05, 2009, 12:42 PM:
 
As Eddie Blassie would say: He's a pencil necked geek.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on September 06, 2009, 05:16 AM:
 
First of all, I'm not trying to insult or offend anyone with the following questions & comments, but I do feel that they are valid and need to be addressed before I reach for my checkbook.

I gather that the NPHA will advocate uniform regs from state to state. This could be a great benifit to us.

I also gather that the NPHA will be sanctioning contests. Nationaly promoted contests are going to draw unwanted attention from the anti's and early / late season contests that involve young of the year are going to be a hard sell to the general public (voters). This is the same 'misinformed public' that has hurt trapping. Do we really want or need this attention and the problems that go with it??

Will the NPHA promote fur handling and at the same time welcome the year 'round red mist crowd?? Those folks that have been around a board or two may have noticed that those two groups don't play well together. Try posting a photo of a summer pup on Pred. Masters & the same photo on the Black Board and see how fast you go from Hero to Zero. There are a lot of strong feelings on that issue, and it brings us to the next question;

Does the NPHA intend to lobby for seasons?? Nobody wants seasons in the regs, yet many of us observe our own personal versions. A National Org. is going to need to have a position on this issue and state it clearly. No matter what is decided, somebody's not going to like it.

What about the ADC guys?? Will the NPHA have a place for them and the vast amount of knowledge & experience that they bring to the table?? And if so, how are you going to sell gunning from aircraft to the misinformed public??

Another (minor) point is calls. I'm guessing that the NPHA's stand on calls will include hand & e-callers. But if I'm not mistaken, there's a club here in Az. that is exclusivily hand calls. Not a big thing, but it does show what a huge tent that will be needed to get all of these different groups together.

We should have some interesting conversations at the campout this year!!!

Forgive me Dan, for I have misspelled.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 06, 2009, 05:58 AM:
 
Something dont smell right. Im hoping my dog farted, but Im afraid its the new board in town, Im sorry, NPHA.

I asked once and got no answer, whos runnin that show? I have a feeling I know since its based out of Indiana. If it is JRB, I have no problem whatsoever with that. I like Jason and think he would be as good as anyone to run something like this.

The thing that smells funny is the fact that if you have any questions, like George did, you get a canned answer online. You gotta make some emails and phone calls to get more canned answers. Why doesnt one of the owners, and Jason if that is you I know you have the balls and intelligence to do it, just go on the forum, put up a sticky, explain the gawdammned thing to all of us and leave it up for more questions. None of this private bullshit.

Another thing that bothers me is I think my questions from a thread a while back about PMS going under has been answered. Looking at the fast growing forum, looks to be record speed for a new board, and the names, its just a bleedover from PMS. While it looks like some pretty good guys are robbin the train, the dipshits have loaded in as well. I havent done alot of reading yet. Have they gotten to the nailbiter topics like 223 vs 22-250 or 17 HMR vs 22 Mag yet? If not, its only a matter of time with this crowd.

IMO, the jury is still out on whether we need a national organization. I can see both good and bad sides and Im afraid the bad is going to outweigh the good. Im also afraid that part of the reason alot of these questions havent been answered is no one knows yet. Somebody went off half cocked without completely thinking things through and planning on doing some off the cuff work.

Just some of my thoughts, FWIW.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on September 06, 2009, 06:22 AM:
 
I'm with ya'll, right now we have another board to visit but until I see where my money is going to go it's staying in my wallet.

We need answers to the questions that have been asked and the longer it takes the more likely it is that redfrog will jump out and say "surprise! how do you like my new board?

Somethings not right here. If it's PM without redfrog that's fine. Fix the things that need fixed, don't just drag em over to a new board.

As for NPHA dues, why? If you can't pick a side of an issue and fight or lobby for it then what good are you? Do you think we'd send money to the NRA if they could only tell us what we needed to say and to whom?
 

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Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on September 06, 2009, 06:35 AM:
 
When talking about organizations and publicity for predator hunting I can only have come to mind what happened to Prairie dogs shooting in South Dakota.. Varmint hunter magazine single handed educated such a huge audience that within a few years the shooting was saturated and now is almost totally commercialized on the private lands. We have not shot there for years.. Comparing predator hunting to sport fishing leaves me to wonder how does catch a release work. It is not for us as predator hunters to educate the masses. If interest exists they can pursue it on their own and will be welcomed.The proliferation of calling videos for profit is doing enough to encourage the sport.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 06, 2009, 09:09 AM:
 
I can see that some of the comments are negative and then Steve and Lance have a decidedly more positive attitude.

It is my impression that NPHA is a lot like PM with the same folks.

I truly want to be fair and withhold judgement. The fact that I ask questions doesn't mean that I'm against the effort. It's worth noting that this is the only place where a discusion is taking place. Near as I can tell, nothing on Midwest, PM or NPHA, and that's a bit strange, all by itself?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 06, 2009, 09:31 AM:
 

quote:

---

It's worth noting that this is the only place where a discusion is taking place. Near as I can tell, nothing on Midwest, PM or NPHA, and that's a bit strange, all by itself?

---

quote:

---

I gather that the NPHA will advocate uniform regs from state to state. This could be a great benifit to us.

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quote:

---

advocate uniform regs from state to state

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quote:

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advocate uniform regs from state to state

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I don't care how big they get, i don't think they can make changes in every state it would require lots and lots of money to do this and time and someone willing to listen....Possably the only ones to benifit are the ones running the show.. Most states have some sort of trapper org. already in place trying to save trapping and make changes i don't think we need another but rather join with them and give as much support as we can.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 06, 2009, 12:38 PM:
 
Dan you would have to look at what it costs each state to provide the manpower to cut down on the poaching and to monitor nite hunters. Most DNR offices don't have much of a budget to begine with and when the state decides to make some cuts the DNR is one of the first... You also have to take in account of the impact of nite hunting on pred.'s..From what i've read nite time calling is more productive than day time and alot of hunters like to hunt year round.. What do you think year round and day or nite time hunting would do to the state population of pred.'s???
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on September 06, 2009, 12:58 PM:
 
BriGuy; Many states Game & Fish Depts. are ran by a group of 'Commissioners' who may or may not know anything about the subject they are making regs on. They often depend on imput from the public, and a rep fom a Nat. Org. would likely have more influnce that some guy wearing a jacket with a couple of club patches on it. What will be needed is a clear policy so that we know exactly where the NPHA stands on many of the different regs.
 

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Posted by Bopeye (Member # 907) on September 06, 2009, 01:35 PM:
 
NO doubt about it. NPHA is being discussed on Fins and Fur, but I really haven't seen anyone get called anything for joining the site.

Show me THO.
 

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Posted by Briguy (Member # 3471) on September 06, 2009, 01:50 PM:
 

quote:

---

What will be needed is a clear policy so that we know exactly where the NPHA stands on many of the different regs.

---

100% agreement on that one...
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 06, 2009, 02:17 PM:
 
I'm getting dizzy, now Tater Tots is Popeye, what the hell is going on here.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 06, 2009, 02:40 PM:
 
I asked a local game warden one time why we cant call at night. He gave me the deer poaching excuse. A little later in the conversation, he went on to talk about how our deer herd was getting too large and he was proud to see that you can now kill all the deer you want for $7 each to thin the herd.

WTF?
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 06, 2009, 03:54 PM:
 

quote:

---

Show me THO

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How'd you get in here wearing a skirt?

I swear, I've seen better legs on a table.
 

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Posted by Bopeye (Member # 907) on September 06, 2009, 06:23 PM:
 
Don't make fun of my skirt THO, I haven't said anything about your tiny balls.
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 06, 2009, 07:50 PM:
 
Damn, I hate a guy who kisses and tells. You said it would be our "little" secret
 

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Posted by Bopeye (Member # 907) on September 06, 2009, 08:20 PM:
 
That was before you mentioned my "skirt". That was personal.
 

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Posted by Bopeye (Member # 907) on September 06, 2009, 08:25 PM:
 
Sniper Dan said, "I'm getting dizzy, now Tater Tots is Popeye, what the hell is going on here."

Sorry 'bout that Dan. I had to get Leonard to screw my brain back in for me. Now I remember who I am.

 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 06, 2009, 09:13 PM:
 
I'd like to see a competitive hunt here in New Hampshire.

7 or 8 of us would show up, (if it isn't too cold) no coyotes would be killed, Browning204 would claim that he would have won because he has a Wildlife Tech caller, but didn't have time to hunt, and 37,458 animal rights activist alerted by Dan Carey would show up to protest the hunt. THO Butt Plugs would be handed out as consolation prizes.

Except for the part about having to listen to Browning crying about how he would have won if he had hunted, it sounds like it would be a good time. As long as it wasn't too cold.

[ September 06, 2009, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: TheHuntedOne ]
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 06, 2009, 09:18 PM:
 
"and 37,458 animal rights activist alerted by Dan Carey would show up to protest the hunt and THO Butt Plugs would be handed out as consolation prizes"

Al, what great idea, let me know when and I'll see what I can do.
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 07, 2009, 03:52 AM:
 
Feb 30 2010. That date seems to work for everyone I've spoken too. I'll send you an invite. Bring your longies.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 07, 2009, 06:00 AM:
 
Ok, I did go do some reading. That is turning into the home for wayward PMS rejects. It will be ass pattin central before long as PMS slips further toward the bright white light.

Im sure JRB will do his best. He has hired some damn good gunslingers, mods, for the most part. I just hope he thougth this whole thing through real well.
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 07, 2009, 07:00 AM:
 
What makes you think JRB is in charge of the NHPA?

Has anyone seen a list of the BOD? Is there one published somewhere?

He owns the domain name - but does that mean he IS the NHPA?
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 07, 2009, 07:39 AM:
 
When the dust settles JRB will be the top dog. I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing, however, I'm not doing an endorsement today.

Although I've been in (clicks) all my life in one form or another, I dislike them. I see them forming on this new site in an unhealthy way.

The moderators are schooled in the way pms was run and fully intend to carry on with this failed policy. I'll just watch form a safe distance.

I thought at one time pms was a good site and well run. After getting to know pussgut thru phone calls, I decided I didn't like that fat bastard at all. I soon learned others felt the same way. We all now know he set the screwed up rules that took pms to its ruin.

Sorry I can't make the NH hunt in Feb. I will be in the south China sea on a cruise.

Clicks, an informal way of saying "they work well together" American Heritage Dictionary.

[ September 07, 2009, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 07, 2009, 07:52 AM:
 
Oh sure, we're not good enough for you now. Even after that offer of an infamous THO Butt Plug.

I don't know what everyone is so afraid of. We've got a coyote here. Honest - we do. Browning shot at him twice so I know he's still alive.

I would still like to know who is in charge of NPHA. There seem to be some good people there, but who knows.

And it's cliques by the way. Not clicks. You must have rifles on the brain.
 

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Posted by Bopeye (Member # 907) on September 07, 2009, 09:53 AM:
 
Let's think.

South China sea cruise or freezing my ass off in NH.
Damn, that's a tuffy, but I guess I'd have to go on the cruise too. With or without my butt plugs.


 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 07, 2009, 10:14 AM:
 
Wimp.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 07, 2009, 10:34 AM:
 
That avatar that Randy the Cajun has says a mouthfull. Checkmate.... Wonder what he is trying to say?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 07, 2009, 10:54 AM:
 
Totally ironic, (and embarassing for him) that Dan Carey misspelled clique! We may need to ask for his resignation as the spelin poleece CZAR?

To be fair, maybe he really did mean click ?

I'm betting he was well known in school, 4H Club, Future Farmers, Debate Club, Chess Club? No sports, whatever. Oh, and DeMolay. In other words, a genuine "Big Man On Campus" yet consistently struck out with the chicks well past graduation. Had meaningful relationship with the Farah Fawcett poster in his bedroom.....and probably never been arrested, either?

On the other hand, were any of us as kool, in reality, as we thought we were?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 07, 2009, 11:06 AM:
 
You know Mr Leonard, if the Monster Board was still up, I would have never corrected him on that.

It probably would have been......painful
 

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Posted by Clint (Member # 346) on September 07, 2009, 12:05 PM:
 
Give him credit he did spell click right, it was it was his comprehension of the definition that was lacking.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 07, 2009, 01:26 PM:
 
He told you to say that, didn't he? Or, is he building you a rifle?

I need help. I'm out of ideas, if he don't like REDFROG KILLER?

Dangerous Dab; lol, I mean Dan!

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Clint (Member # 346) on September 07, 2009, 02:28 PM:
 
Ya right, I cant afford one of his rifles.
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on September 07, 2009, 02:51 PM:
 
Don't worry Dan, I was in 4-H, FFA and DeMolay too ( we didn't have a debate or chess club ) And I'm betting the only guys who didn't have a meaningful relationship with a Farah poster during the 70's was Leonard and Richard Simmons!
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 07, 2009, 03:38 PM:
 
Yep, I did do all the things that guys like leonard wishes he could have done.

I don't usually waste my time proof reading the crap I write, knowing full well the unwashed that read it wouldn't know the difference anyway. I'm not a school teacher, so pardon the grammar errors.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 07, 2009, 04:22 PM:
 
THO, since you keep bringing it up, either the cracks about your buttplug calls really struck a nerve or you actually do make them?

It was a funny idea, although kinda sick. There seemed to be alot of anal humor going on for a while. I dont really understand it, but whatever. I guess the famous Jeff Mock quote got that going.

I used to let the remarks on the Monster get to me a little. There was really only one that pissed me off, Gargoyle, but I have since reconciled. Hes actually a pretty good guy I think that just goes on with shit to stir shit. I used to do that some. Still do if Im bored. So fuck em.

Seems like Highschool in a way. On the Monster, if you let them see they struck a nerve it was a dogpile. Ignore it and it goes away. I kind of miss it. Does anyone know what happened this time and if it will be back? I think we need a place like that to be honest.

Although, LB, IMHO, does a fine job of letting folks speak their minds right here. I know in my early days on this board, straight off the blackboard, I had some brewhaahaas that could have gotten me the boot on most other boards. Hell, LB and I had a little dust up right out of the chute ourselves.

Actually, with all his issues, JH was pretty good about letting stuff run. Until it got to politics, then he would alter or delete posts. I know some are going to argue with me on this, but I watched it happen. From my house and his. He used to laugh about how hard it was to argue with him when he had the edit button, that was while I was sitting in his living room.

I love this bar. Dont ever close her down LB.
 

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Posted by Briguy (Member # 3471) on September 07, 2009, 05:29 PM:
 

quote:

---

...pardon the grammar errors.

---

quote:

---

I gather that the NPHA will advocate uniform regs from state to state. This could be a great benifit to us.

---

I live in a state with NO laws at all governing coyote hunting. As I see it, ANY change will be bad here.
 

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Posted by 5shots (Member # 427) on September 07, 2009, 08:09 PM:
 
Another thing to think about.... we have been trying to wipe them out around here since the early 1900s, gov. trapping, ariel gunning, private trapping and hunting all year hasn't done it yet. The coyote population is nothing close to what the south western states have but less food and 40 below zero can help to explain that.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 07, 2009, 08:14 PM:
 
I agree, any new standardization of the laws will not be a positive thing for us cowboys. Them Yankee's and Kali guys may them, but I don't. The fact we can't hunt at night in AZ is bad enough without adding some other asinine laws.

PS: I don't give a rats ass about grammar.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 07, 2009, 08:17 PM:
 
<<<-------- I want "Original Monster"

[ September 08, 2009, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

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Posted by Briguy (Member # 3471) on September 07, 2009, 09:03 PM:
 

quote:

---

PS: I don't give a rats ass about grammar.

---

I know you don't Dan...I was just razzin' the "poleese"...course now you're a Shootor, so kind of looses the effect.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 08, 2009, 09:26 AM:
 
Dan, okay. But, let's quit acting like a spoiled brat, every day demanding a new custom title. <shesh>

Good hunting. LB

BRB
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 08, 2009, 10:26 AM:
 
De you damn dude, you wisspelled MONSTER, or aro

I give up.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 08, 2009, 12:24 PM:
 
I agree. Your proofreading skills suck. You only noticed 50%.

So, excuse ME! I'll correct Munster. LB

edit: Hey, do riflesmiths have groupies, like Rock Stars?

[ September 08, 2009, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 08, 2009, 12:38 PM:
 
Thank you, you are a savant and a premier predator hunter.

EDIT:
Yes they do and I ask mine to be nice, don't be a pain in the ass.

[ September 09, 2009, 06:48 AM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 08, 2009, 12:43 PM:
 
Don't see it, Do ya....
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on September 08, 2009, 01:06 PM:
 
5shots;
In your case, yes, any change would be bad...... or worse.

Let's say that the bunny huggers go to your Game & Fish Dept. and start demanding to know what the management plan for coyotes is, where the Enviromental Impact Studies are, and what documentation is on file. (They did this in Calif. over feral pigs, already.) Now the Dept. has to do 'something' and get language in the regs. My point is that it would be better to have a National Rep. present the voice of reason and state; "This is what has worked in your neighboring states X - Y & Z." Or you could have the bunny huggers read a few passages of 'God's Dog' by Hope Ryden into the public record.

One thing is for certain; The times, they are 'a changing.

>>> Is that 5shots from a clip or glass???
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 09, 2009, 03:45 AM:
 
Andy - they didn't strike a nerve, they hurt me deeply - I am still a shattered soul over what was said about me on the Monster. Crushed you might say. If you believe that, then you will believe I killed 100 coyotes in New Hampshire last year too..... and we ALL know that's BS

I was just poking fun at the pokers. I can laugh about it. You're still a good guy but if you keep it up, I AM gong to send you your own personal THO Butt Plug. What you do with it will of course be up to you And I don't want to know.
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 09, 2009, 03:59 AM:
 
Any national org that represents itself at a Fish and Game Hearing before he legislature is only going to be as good as the person representing the national organization.

I've testified before both our House and Senate Fish and Game Committees on behalf of our states bow hunting organization when I was the president of it. I've seen guys from the NWTF come in and make complete fools of themselves and actually hurt the cause.

On the other hand, I have seen some animal rights people come in and do the same thing.

There are very few regulations on hunting coyotes here in NH, and we dont need more.

What it boils down to is what may be good for one state might not be good for another, and any position a national org is going to take is always going to be a compromise.

Even if the NPHA is not represented at a hearing, if someone from the other side testifies that what is proposed goes against the positions of a National Org, that might be a bad situation. Even if counter arguments can be made for any position that a national org takes that might not be in the best interest of one particular state, the fact will stick in the legislatures heads that the position of the hunters of that state is bucking the national org. The danger is that the national org might receive more credibility just because it IS a national org even if it's position is not in the best interest of one particular state.

In some respects then, it could actually hurt more than help to have a national org.

The bottom line is that this will have to be really well thought out, and I'm glad they are taking their time right now and not rushing into anything.
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 09, 2009, 08:42 AM:
 
"they didn't strike a nerve, they hurt me deeply - I am still a shattered soul over what was said about me on the Monster. Crushed you might say. If you believe that, then you will believe I killed 100 coyotes in New Hampshire last year too..... and we ALL know that's BS"

"Oh sure, we're not good enough for you now. Even after that offer of an infamous THO Butt Plug."

Al, I'm glad that you were not offended by the remarks on the Monster board, as I was part of the Monster board at the time. We were just having a little fun at your expense or maybe it was a little payback for your letter writing skills. Nevertheless, we wouldn't want you to stop making THO butt plugs as we feel there is a market for them, just maybe not on the predator hunting boards. A quick Google search should give you some positive ideas on where to go. I would like to see one, so as to confirm they are of the quality the butt plug using community would deserve. It would be an eye opening experience for me to actually see one.

Good luck in your butt plug endeavors, and should you become wealthy remember where the idea came from.

[ September 09, 2009, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 09, 2009, 08:57 AM:
 
Now that's some funny stuff

Living here in the north east, I dont have to do an internet search, you would be surprised how well I do on the street corner just selling out of my Honda Prius

You guys opened up a "hole" new market for me.

But I seriously could not have done it without your product testing for me. That really "sealed" the deal on the butt plugs.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 09, 2009, 10:13 AM:
 
Dan, in a PM, Al said that you actually ordered one? OMG!

Dan, BTW, how do you spell "Socialist"? Huh?

Does each butt plug w/reed come with choice of Ranch Beans or BBQ?

OMG! This is getting sick, monster topics!

Al I scolded the hell out of Andy. He's on probation!

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 09, 2009, 10:35 AM:
 
I dont blame you Mr. Leonard - Andy didn't get "behind" my new butt plugs with the same amount of "gaiety" that Dan and his Monster Buddies did.

I wonder what I ever did to him?

No matter, Andy is one of the good guys - and I mean that.
 

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Posted by cyotekiller (Member # 3204) on September 09, 2009, 10:51 AM:
 
Specialist Aaron J. Bosinski is leaving for home on the 4th of Sept. by way of Germany. How about that?

wow cant believe my bro is comin bac cant wa8 2 c him anyway about the fires... its pretty sad how f***ed up some people are im only out here in calimesa but that oak glen and peddlton fire was only about a mile from my house smoke soo bad they cancled schhool but hey im nt complaining
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 09, 2009, 10:58 AM:
 
"Dan, BTW, how do you spell "Socialist"? Huh?"

I don't know, pussgut? How?
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 14, 2009, 04:55 AM:
 
Al, thanks for the compliment. Im trying to reform. Actually, most of what I write Im just jackin around and in this 2D world, sometimes without the emotion, it gets taken wrong.

LB, Ill try not to fuck up my probation. How long is it anyway? I got somebody in my sights so as soon as you let me off Im lettin go with both barrells.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 14, 2009, 04:58 AM:
 
Al, thanks for the compliment. Im trying to reform. Actually, most of what I write Im just jackin around and in this 2D world, sometimes without the emotion, it gets taken wrong.

LB, Ill try not to fuck up my probation. How long is it anyway? I got somebody in my sights so as soon as you let me off Im lettin go with both barrells.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 14, 2009, 10:01 AM:
 
Probation doesn't mean you can't do stuff, it means there are consequences if you screw up real bad. Also, it depends on who you are dicking with and whether management is sympathetic. It's a complicated and precise formula.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 14, 2009, 04:23 PM:
 
I think you ought to ban him for posting that twice


 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 14, 2009, 04:56 PM:
 
Don't think I didn't consider it.....
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 14, 2009, 04:56 PM:
 
Don't think I didn't consider it.....
 

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Posted by TheHuntedOne (Member # 623) on September 14, 2009, 05:46 PM:
 
I just spit coffee all over my screen. That was priceless ROFLMAO
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 14, 2009, 07:32 PM:
 
Please send me a list of who I can and cant fuck with.....

Your a hoot LB.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 14, 2009, 08:01 PM:
 
Okay, if you need an assignment, you can start with the twins.

Clever Gary and Shaky Dan. One is a (formerly pony tailed) card carrying freekin' liberal, and the other is thinning out on top, and his best groups are behind him.

No rules
 

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Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on September 14, 2009, 08:38 PM:
 
And good groups they were!!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 14, 2009, 08:55 PM:
 
lol
 

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Posted by nd coyote killer (Member # 40) on September 14, 2009, 09:05 PM:
 
NPHA there goes the neighborhood!! People never frickin learn from others mistakes.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 14, 2009, 09:06 PM:
 
Well, Shit! I really didnt have any sights set on those two.

Oh well, Ill just give one a rip next time I get a chance and see what happens. Hopefully the management will be in a good mood.

Honestly, Im just messin around. Ive turned over a new leaf and gonna try for peace and love and all that shit.

BTW, and I hate to say this cause you always change it, I like the new handle.

[ September 14, 2009, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 14, 2009, 09:17 PM:
 
Damned crybaby. Okay, pick on whoever you want. ONE, so pick carefully and don't come running to me when you get your ass handed to you. As is likely.

Glad you like your title, one of your best friends suggested it.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 14, 2009, 10:03 PM:
 
ROTFLMFAO, your killin me....
 

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