The New Huntmastersbbs!: Glad they got this AR/.17/.223 thing all settled over there

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on January 09, 2010, 09:33 AM:

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1478060&page=1

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 09, 2010, 09:52 AM:

That thread is better than watching a playoff game.

Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 09, 2010, 09:56 AM:

TA is keepin em lined out for sure. LMAO

Go get em TA!!

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 09, 2010, 02:08 PM:

Just killing time.LOL

Seriously though i believe the 223 is'nt enough gun unless you are just shooting called in coyotes with it.. I've seen alot of coyote take 1-2-3 hits from the dam things and they just keep on going. In some situations it just dose'nt have enough steam to be reliable most of the time.. Take a look at some of the hard core hunters that use the AR, why are they going to a larger cartridge like the 243 or 223 wssm and other wssm cartidges...I believe a reliable cartridge for coyotes has to move a var. bullet along at least 3800 fps.. I don't care if someone wants to use the 223 but in my opinion its not enough...now blast away... [Big Grin]

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 09, 2010, 02:15 PM:

Crap Tim, my 243AI don't move it's boolit but 3500fps.

And here all this time I thought calling critters was what it was about.

If you get a fast enough twist, then use a 77 gr SMK if you need a heavier boolit for the 223.

Oh and it kills em just fine at 2600 fps out of a little carbean.

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on January 09, 2010, 02:22 PM:

The whole damn discussion is about "called in coyotes", and yet you're argueing as to weather or not the capability of the .223 is good enough!! And then right here you state that it IS good enough IF all you're using it for is "called in coyotes!

Funny chit right there! [Big Grin]

Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 09, 2010, 02:25 PM:

Doesn't everybody shoot called in coyotes,or try to,thats what we do right ?

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 09, 2010, 02:46 PM:

In Tim's defense, he can't call them in in MN so they just drive around and shoot them out of the truck.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 09, 2010, 02:57 PM:

quote:
The whole damn discussion is about "called in coyotes", and yet you're argueing as to weather or not the capability of the .223 is good enough!! And then right here you state that it IS good enough IF all you're using it for is "called in coyotes!

Funny chit right there!

If you go back to P.M and read the very first post the question was asked what are the pro's and con's of a AR. I gave the con's..Too badd i had to hurt there little feelings..LMAO
Yes TOm we shoot them from the road and out of brush piles and any place else they may hide and we shoot alot of them running for there very lives and like i said the 223 is a piece of shit.. Last year i hunted with a ADC trapper that took his AR along for just kicks cause we where calling in my area.. He shot two coyotes with it, one we never found and the other i had to finish with my little 17 pred. before it got down into the drainage.. Sure it can happen to anyone no matter what cal. but twice in a row.. I'd say it was time to dump it and get something better... [Roll Eyes]

Youre right Tom i don't call that many coyotes here in Mn. but i make up for it else where.. How many have you called and killed lately???? [Razz]

[ January 09, 2010, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 09, 2010, 03:35 PM:

Tim, I've called and killed 6 coyotes this year out of a total of 21 stands made. Called 11 total. All with a 243AI bolt gun but I've killed plenty with an AR to know you're full of it.

Now if I could figure out how to get in more hunting, maybe I'd kill more but remember I just started mid December and my time is limited.

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on January 09, 2010, 07:29 PM:

yip, went back and looked and everyone of the replys talked about "being quite" as not to wake up a poor little coyote with the slamming of the bolt when exiting a vehicle.

Like I said, the whole discussion concerns "calling situations". Let me quantify that statement since not one thing in "calling predators" is an absolute. As in this thread, the topic concerns "calling" which in turn is like saying a coyote always goes downwind, we all know that it's not always the case, BUT damn straight usually will happen if given the chance.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 09, 2010, 07:48 PM:

For those of you that like to use a decoy i have a special on frozen dead coyotes, standing position and a few sitting 50.00 each while supplies last... [Big Grin]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 09, 2010, 08:33 PM:

I don't have a very favorable opinion of the 223, either, extremely marginal. Yeah, on called coyotes.

As we all know, they sometimes come in pairs and after dropping the first one, the second can be in high gear and those much appreciated 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th shots are at a coyote approaching a quarter mile away. This is a called coyote, yet it calls for more than what a 223Remington can deliver and sometimes that's not enough for a reliable kill.

I have used an AR 223 on coyotes. I don't like what I see. However, in SOME applcations, I have been known to use the Ackley version, so if anybody thinks that be a contradiction, that's okay.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 09, 2010, 08:49 PM:

You know in that thread on P.M. i don't think one member thats shoots a 223 ever mentioned or addmitted to haveing any run off's or spinners ect. But then i go to Midwest Pred where they have a thread on the 223 and about 90% of the guys that use one do make the claim that its not enough gun at times... But there are 1000's of hunters that use one and have no issues so i guess i'm wrong...

[ January 09, 2010, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 09, 2010, 09:18 PM:

TA "i don't think one member thats shoots a 223 ever mentioned or addmitted to haveing any run off's or spinners ect."

Tim, I've had runners with everything but a 25-06 and that's just because I didn't use it much. Had one today with the 243AI, my fault, not the calibers.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 09, 2010, 10:13 PM:

Yes Tom i understand that, it can happen to anyone.. What i'm talking about is a coyote that has taken a good hit and either runs off or goes down and then gets back up and runs or crawls off...I'm just saying i've seen more run off after takeing a 223 hit compared to other cartridges that the guys use here... The other day a kid that hunted with us for the day had a double come down the fence line and he took both of them out with his trusty AR. at close range.. He did a good job for his first double but the guys walking out in the section were'nt to happy about all the shots it took to put them down.. And when they brought the coyotes over to my truck to take home and skin i told them they can toss them... I hate to see what would of been good coyotes go to waste....

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 09, 2010, 11:03 PM:

Well I'll just say that I like the 223 and just have had different experiences than you and Leonard.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 09, 2010, 11:07 PM:

I finally had the time to read all that dogpile on PM. Actually, I hate saying this, but the 17 Predator probably is a better all around coyote killing cartridge than a plain vanilla 223.....especially in an AR. But, hey, what has a better chance of winning the Indy 500, a Pinto or a Geo metro?

Just tell them that I, (Lenbo) agree with ya. That SHOULD shut them up. lol

Good hunting. LB
(Huh? Who's that old fart?)

[ January 09, 2010, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 10, 2010, 01:55 AM:

Ive killed a pretty good pile of coyotes over the years with my 223AI with a 52gr AMax. Honestly, its my favorite calling rifle and the one I have the most confidence in. Everything seems to be balanced out about right and knocks the shit out of coyotes. Without tearing the shit out of them. Ive had to come up with plan B as my son has claimed that one and he likes it just as much.

As you know Tim, I like the little guns too. I dont shoot a 17 anymore, but do have a 204 Ruger that is my main calling rifle. When I dont take my AR that is. [Smile]

There are tons of variables in everything. Coyote calling is no exception. When talking about a "called coyote", I tend to think of an shot of 100 yards or less, normally under 50. This doesnt always happen, doesnt happen everywhere, there are exceptions, but I think those are the ranges that come into most peoples minds, from what I can see.

At 100 yards or less, I dont see how a 223 can be considered too light. Like LB said, on multiples where your trying to get a second or third running away at longer range, yeah, it might be a little light. But on a coyote at 100 or less, it seems to be plenty of gun to me.

JMHO

Posted by Semp (Member # 3074) on January 10, 2010, 05:54 AM:

After reading two pages of "how to load an AR", I quit. I just couldn't read anymore.

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on January 10, 2010, 06:46 AM:

quote:
Actually, I hate saying this, but the 17 Predator probably is a better all around coyote killing cartridge than a plain vanilla 223.....

I'm gonna hold on to this and cherish it <big grin!>.

If ever there was a less interesting cartridge than the .223, I'm not aware of it. I don't even own one anymore. Still have a few thousand pieces of brass (prepped and primed) though. So I might pick up an AR sometime, if the jack rabbits ever make a good comeback.

- DAA

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 10, 2010, 07:11 AM:

"If ever there was a less interesting cartridge than the .223..........."

Oh, I dunno know; I've been told that my 30-30 is boring, passe, & out-classed. [Eek!]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 10, 2010, 09:00 AM:

quote:
Doesn't everybody shoot called in coyotes,or try to,thats what we do right ?

No Dave not everyone shoots just called in coyotes. Some guys also hunt and stalk them or try to snipe them from the closest hill. When hunting them you don't always get a shot at a bedded coyote or one thats just stands around and says shoot me shoot me..LOL Alot of times a running shot is required and the distance can very from 30 yds out past 500 yds sometimes you have time to use a shooting rest to steady youre shots and other times you just have to take a standing shot... I've noticed through the years weither hunting deer or other animals if the animal is just standing there they seem to go down pretty easey in most cases.. But when you have a animal on the move often times it takes a little more to put them down...
I'm not saying the 17 cal. is the answer but it does work very well on standing or running coyotes, i can also show you a group of hunters that have been embarrassed more than once by it also...By looking at the vel. charts the 223 imp. would be a better choice along with a 222-mag. or even the 204 with the right bullet..

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 10, 2010, 09:43 AM:

Don't worry, Dave. I also appreciate the irony of that statement. Good description; a 223 is criminally "boring". Kinda like a 30'06?

There is suitable and there is unsuitable. If a person can't do any better than a 223 AR, he isn't trying very hard. Then there is this bullshit about noisy loading and "click" when being stealthy. Then there's that handle that is always getting in the way. I have never seen a military firearm less suited for a hunting application.

Actually, I think it is very possible that a few AR users just like playing soldier? Except Kelly, of course. (pause) All HM members excepted, everybody gets a car!!!!!

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on January 10, 2010, 10:36 AM:

Kind of like the guys with the 5000 dollar sniper rifle setups calling coyotes. Ive seen the long range hunting stuff on tv and in real life, but most of these guys are spending money to look cool, or feel like they are a sniper of some sort, they cant even begin to know how to utilize that setup. Not all, but I would venture to say most.
A little off topic.

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 10, 2010, 11:22 AM:

Speaking of "Machine gun Kelly" he and his partner won a pretty good sized contest yesterday with 13 coyotes so I've been told.

I don't think the handle got in the way...

Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 10, 2010, 11:24 AM:

Lone Howl, thats the damn truth. I have a friend, a good friend, that is just anal about speed. He has to have the fastest, fanciest, long range shooting rig of anyone he knows, or he isnt happy.

His latest is a 25 STW. He tells me its spittin 100 gr TSX over 4k or some shit like that. Just unbelievable. He killed a deer or two with it last year, no incredible shots, I think one doe was pushin 400 yards or something.

This year, he went to some big buck areas in North MO and was all excited. He missed two big bucks that I have been told about. One should have tested that rifles muster, somewhere around 750 yards. The other was under 200.

What Im gettin at is you can have the greatest new wizzbang gadget on the market. But if you dont know how to use it......

Ill take my (sons) 223AI over any coyote rifle I have ever fired. Next, I really dont know. I havent killed enough with anything else, other than a 243, to make a real informed decision. I dont care for the 243, btw, becuse it tears the shit out of stuff, or at least it did for me. Although it would be great for contests I would think. I dont see why a vanilla 223 isnt just fine for coyotes at 100 yards. The 204 is showing great promise, but I havent hunted or killed enough with it to be very comfortable just yet.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 10, 2010, 12:04 PM:

quote:
I don't think the handle got in the way...

Most likely not for doing so well but then again we don't know how many he may have missed. [Wink]

Another thing to keep in mind> Kelly is'nt useing the 223 round in his AR.I wonder why! [Big Grin]

[ January 10, 2010, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 10, 2010, 01:00 PM:

Gosh Tim,thanks for the education,I didn't have any clue,that we could shoot coyote's across pastures,fields,ect..

I thought we had to call them in.."duh"

Actually,some of us get great pleasure from calling coyotes,while I'm far from being an expert,I recieve great pleasure in seeing how close I can call a coyote towards me.

Again I was under the "interpretion" that most coyote hunters goal was to call them as close as possible.

This why there are discussions,as I'm sure you are aware of,pertaining to what type of call should be used. Hand call or electronic ?

Wildlife Technologies or FoxPro ect..ect..

Or a Sceery or Tally Ho ?

As far as shooting running coyotes from 30 to 500 yards,I'm pretty good with the 30 yard opportunities,I'm pretty unsure beyond that point.

I'm quite sure there's better shots out there than myself though..

I'm 45 years old,if I could quit my job,hunt everyday and hope to live another 45 years,maybe just maybe,I'd get this stuff figured out..

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 10, 2010, 01:54 PM:

Rough crowd here.

Does this look like a military arm?

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on January 10, 2010, 02:02 PM:

I have killed plenty of coyotes with a 223 AR, but it is not what I grab when my money is down.
I want something that kills at all angles.

75gr Vmax at 3100MV from the 6 WOA has been working well on called coyotes.

Stay after them
Kelly

Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on January 10, 2010, 03:20 PM:

Nice job Kelly!

Posted by Brad Norman (Member # 234) on January 10, 2010, 03:43 PM:

Congrats Kelly!

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on January 10, 2010, 04:50 PM:

a bunch of 'ol cogers in here. I'll take my 17 hmr that shoots 1/4", 5 shot 100 yard groups, any day and every day, all week long!!! Head shots will be all I'll take. Standing, running, loping in, loping out....it don't matter. As long as they're with-in 200 yards, I just hold right on fur!! [Big Grin]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 10, 2010, 05:36 PM:

Yeah, and I solve the noise problem by chambering a round before I leave the house....that's (by far) the most quite.

One thing for sure, TA sure likes to stir the shit!

Good hunting. LB

edit: forgot! Way to go, Kelly. Always like to see one of the HM homeboys do good.

edit: hey, is that a new title, or what?

"HM Homeboy"

[ January 10, 2010, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on January 10, 2010, 05:59 PM:

I'm with Kelly on the 6-WOA. I've tried them all over the years and settled on a 6mm.

Happy to see you did well!!

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 10, 2010, 07:17 PM:

quote:
Again I was under the "interpretion" that most coyote hunters goal was to call them as close as possible.

I guess alot of callers like to do it that way, i prefer to have them between a 100-200 yds out. I don't want them in to close to where they can get under me or behind anything that can prevent me from getting a shot.. When they are farther out i want them atleast half-way below a ridge line or at the bottm of a hill. If the first shot should go wrong or i have multables i have plenty of time to get on them verses that one quick shot and they are gone.. I don't carry a shotgun for calling and never will..

quote:
Yeah, and I solve the noise problem by chambering a round before I leave the house....that's (by far) the most quite.

As far as makeing noise goes i was out hunting with one of the ADC guys for the first time and when i was getting out of the truck and getting ready to close the truck door he said just close it and not try to baby it, the coyotes are used to hearing all kinds of noises.. Done it that way ever since and don't see any problems from doing so and i think a guy could just do the same with his AR at the truck. Just slam the bolt home and move on...

[ January 10, 2010, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on January 11, 2010, 08:57 AM:

Just try and convince this man that his 223 AR won't kill coyotes.

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 11, 2010, 11:32 AM:

He looks formidable.

Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on January 11, 2010, 11:33 AM:

Way to go Kelly!
Keep after em
Paul

Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on January 11, 2010, 12:36 PM:

That pic is a real "Classic", Kelly!!! Sure scares the heck out of me. [Eek!]

Nikonut

Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on January 11, 2010, 03:37 PM:

Congrats Kelly!!! Did ya git yer gas paid fer?
Good shootin' muh friend! [Smile]

Was the hunt a day and a half? Night hunting allowed? Did the bobcat count for anything? Did a buyer collect the animals? Tell us about the hunt.

[ January 11, 2010, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Locohead ]

Posted by Bofire (Member # 221) on January 11, 2010, 05:26 PM:

hmmmm, I went and read the post on PM cause you guys brought it up, waste of time.
AR's are awkward and too many switches and stuff for me, I like it simple cause I aint too smart.
I killed 40 or so yotes with 223 guess I am just lucky.
Like my 22-250 or 243 better, 243 is the "when it counts" gun, but never felt under gunned with my 223, O course I think 300 yards is a long shot.
Carl

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on January 11, 2010, 05:44 PM:

It was a one day - daylight till dark hunt. We made 22 stands called 20 coyotes and killed 13 of the 15 that were inside 300 yards. That morning the coyotes where acting funny stayed waaaaaaaaaaay out.
If I was the rifleman some of you are we would have had 15 in the back of the truck. Clipped a wire on one and missed a 200 yard head/ear shot in the high grass that I should have made. But we settled down after 9:00 am and pretty much kill all that came in. Cats didn’t count in this one. (Plus we put the cat and another coyotes in the truck the next morning after the hunt was over)

My partner worked his ass off gathering land and scouting, while I, being 3 hours away got to hunt my local coyotes for the last couple of months. (he would call me twice a week and ask me if I knew how hard that was….lol)

To Joe Allison all the credit is due. We hunted his land, he let me shoot the long ones and it all worked out.
I did pretty good figuring where the coyotes would come from and had killed 8 of the 9 till the last two stands.

The last two stands he killed doubles and those 4 put us over the top.
Joe made a fine running shot on one of those also.
This one paid real good with 117 teams at $100 a man plus $50 jackpot (no Calcutta to wait around for thank God) and only paying three places after the polygraph.
I will be in good cigars for awhile.

We hunted it last year, should of, could of, would of, had 2nd
Joe was determined to win this year. The coyotes gods smiled and we did.
Kelly

edit to change that to a 100 a man (2 man team)

[ January 11, 2010, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 11, 2010, 07:33 PM:

You're my new hero!

Posted by Patterson (Member # 3304) on January 12, 2010, 08:52 AM:

Nice job Kelly, hell of a day.

Posted by Ridge Runner (Member # 3477) on January 12, 2010, 03:44 PM:

well have never used a 17, and have killed very few coyotes but I've used the 223 to kill a bunch of deer, if it'll work for deer it'll work for canines that are less than half that size.
I killed a 10 point buck once at 440 yards, many right at 300.
RR

edited to say, Cool I've been upgraded to a "lesser than desireable character" I feel special!

[ January 12, 2010, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Ridge Runner ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 12, 2010, 04:46 PM:

Yes, RR you sure have, along with almost every other member that has not requested a custom title.

For an explanation, see here: http://www.huntmastersbbs.com/cgi/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=002260

However, there is not a direct correlation between the size of a deer and the size of a coyote, and what it takes to put them down. Pound for pound, many of us think that a coyote can handle a lot of lead.

On the other hand, larger calibers are considered more suitable for deer, as a general rule... and in fact, in some states, the minimum legal is 24 caliber. I will go a step further and suggest that 24 and 25 caliber are ideal for both coyotes and deer. Not withstanding the never ending argument about 17 caliber, of course.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 12, 2010, 06:17 PM:

"I will go a step further and suggest that 24 and 25 caliber are ideal for both coyotes and deer."
----------------------------------------------
Very well said Leonard. [Wink]

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 12, 2010, 06:25 PM:

I have seen NJ deer take 12 gauge slugs in the boiler room and then run like they were never hit.

Coyotes are tough animals, tougher than deer in my opinion.

Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on January 12, 2010, 07:24 PM:

They are essentially a 25 pound dog, Ive always found that 25 grains of lead in the lungs or liver kill them quite easily? Maybe these Az coyotes are wussies?

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 12, 2010, 07:36 PM:

Yep the 223 is great on deer if you can get them to stand still long enough for the shot, but now throw a running deer or coyote into the picture if you miss the brain or spine its not going to stop..I guess thats why most have to use a AR and put as many rounds in the animal till it stops... I'm not saying a 17 cal. is a perfect round for coyotes but i'll tell you one thing i have'nt had to put a second bullet in too many of them either.. As far as deer go it could possably kill one but there are better choices for the job at hand...A animal all pumped up with adrenilen is a tough animal to put down weither it be a deer or a coyote...

Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on January 12, 2010, 08:25 PM:

Ive shot a lot of deer and an antelope with the .223, and I would never even think of aiming for the brain or spine. Just like a coyote, shoot them in the lungs-liver, and I can promise you they will not go very far, if at all.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 12, 2010, 09:54 PM:

Well, look who answered the bell?

I'm going to error on the side of caution.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 12, 2010, 10:03 PM:

I shot this antelope with a 22-250 useing a 55 gr. Nosler, lung shot.. I tracked it for almost 2 miles...Second day i got another but i used my 6mm H.L.S. with a 85 gr. Nosler instead with no tracking required..I guess if i would of had a perfect shot where the antelope was level with me the bullet would of caught both lungs...Or maybe i should of had a 223.. [Roll Eyes]

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/House/antelope.jpg[/IMG]]

[ January 12, 2010, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Ridge Runner (Member # 3477) on January 13, 2010, 02:48 AM:

quote:
I shot this antelope with a 22-250 useing a 55 gr. Nosler, lung shot.. I tracked it for almost 2 miles...Second day i got another but i used my 6mm H.L.S. with a 85 gr. Nosler instead with no tracking required..I guess if i would of had a perfect shot where the antelope was level with me the bullet would of caught both lungs...Or maybe i should of had a 223..

You may not believe it tim, but with a regular cup/core bullet the 223 does better on deer sized game than the 22-250, the added velocity of the 250 expands the bullet to fast when it meats resistance the weight of deer. basicly rib shooting a deer at 100 yards with the 22-250 will give you the same results as the same bullet from a 223 that catches the shoulder at the same range.
RR

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 13, 2010, 02:51 AM:

I doubt AZ dogs are wussies. I am far from an expert but with the size difference of coyotes here in the northeast as compared to the south west I would feel more comfortable with a .243 for here. The discussion on the other thread did not seem to take into account the different weights and sizes of coyotes in the various parts of the country.

Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on January 13, 2010, 05:06 AM:

Evidently; a piss poor lung shot? The lung shot deer I autopsied when using my .223, with the Sierra 52bthp match, all had a .223 entrance, and about a nickle sized hole on the other side.
For my predator hunting, the .223 is too much gun, in fact, I don't own a caliber that large, nor can I imagine needing one.

Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on January 13, 2010, 05:17 AM:

Our coyotes here in Central Illinois range upward to 50lbs but often more in the 35-40lbs class. Yes, they can be a little tougher but a .223 is more than enough out to 300yds with the right bullet and a good hit. I often shoot a 22PPC with a velocity(loaded to 3650-3700fps)in between the .223 and .22-250. A 50gr V_max will jelly the insides of a big coyote at under 200yds at that velocity.

I've never shot or seen a coyote shot with the .17Rem but I think from what I've read and seen in the charts that it would do a good job most of the time as well and save fur. I would think bullet selection and shot placement would be more critical.

I really don't think for just killing a coyote you can beat the 6mm class of rounds. Most 7mm rounds are overkill but will definitely take them down! I'd love to have a 6BR or 6mm Dasher someday!

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 13, 2010, 06:20 AM:

quote:
For my predator hunting, the .223 is too much gun, in fact, I don't own a caliber that large, nor can I imagine needing one.

I would'nt say its too much gun but unreliable in performance, you'll never know what the bullet is going to do comeing out of a 223.. Another thing to take in to account is temp., as the temp drops so does the vel., that 3600 fps screamer with -15 temps. is now a 3300 fps... Not much better than a 221 f.b. on a warm day...
The temp.s don't just affect the 223 its the same with any cal. and you will see that most guys prefer a bigger cartridge up in the colder climates. Problem is on a warmer day some of the larger cal.s canbe too much and on a cold day they are perfect and some not so perfect...
My 17 Pred. on a warm day is pushing a 30 gr. at 4000 fps and on a colder day its comeing out at around 3800 which is pretty close to a 17 rem. on a warm day. The bullet is still at the magic speed for killing coyotes...Another reason to keep a log on youre hunts, its a good way to find out what works and what don't and why...

17 pred. bullet damage;
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/SDDec-2009047.jpg[/IMG]]

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/SDDec-2009048.jpg[/IMG]]

Chest shot;
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/SDDec-2009049.jpg[/IMG]]

[ January 13, 2010, 06:37 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on January 13, 2010, 06:58 AM:

quote:
Another thing to take in to account is temp., as the temp drops so does the vel., that 3600 fps screamer with -15 temps. is now a 3300 fps...

That's not necessarily true...

There are many powders availible today that are not nearly as temperature sensitive as others. I use H322 almost exclusively in my PPC's and have never had problems with lost velocity during cold weather. Even hot weather has little effect as long as you aren't riding your loads on the upper edge. H335 is my go to for .222 and .223 loads but it is slower than H322 and seems a little more sensitive. The hotter your loads are the more effect temps will generally have on them regardless of what powders you use and that's why I try to find the most accurate load that's not at the top of the ladder.

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 13, 2010, 07:30 AM:

Reguardless of anything else that we may or may not agree on................. That's a damn nice fur shed!!! [Cool]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 13, 2010, 10:14 AM:

Yeah, nice fur shed, Tim. The little woman keeps it homey, could use a few lace curtains? Can we see a shot of her tugging on the other end of those ropes?

......not owning anything but subcalibers, yet shooting big game with 223s? Som ting wong?

It helps to be an excellent shot on game. Has that been mentioned? We mere mortals need all the help we can get!

Good hunting. LB

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 13, 2010, 10:17 AM:

Tim just why is it that you never know what a bullet is going to do coming out of a .223?

I own a chronograph too and have killed deer, coyotes, bobcats, dogs and even a cow (intentionaly) with a .223 in temps ranging fron 100+ to well below freezing and I know what the bullet is going to do.

I've also killed critters with a 223 in a 14" contender pistol, bolt guns with 24" barrels and carbean AR's. I know the velocity difference and what the chosen bullets will do.

I've also owned a 17 Rem and cuzz owned one as well, we know what they'll do as well.

I will concede my 243AI is a quicker, more violent killer but the end result is the same.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 13, 2010, 11:08 AM:

Maybe you can enlighten us, Tom?

quote:
have killed deer, coyotes, bobcats, dogs and even a cow (intentionaly) with a .223 in temps ranging fron 100+ to well below freezing and I know what the bullet is going to do.

What is the bullet going to do and is it adequate for those applications listed above, in your estimation?

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 13, 2010, 01:21 PM:

Gladly Leonard.

First I've never lost 300 fps on temp changes or altitude or air density.

For coyotes and cats I want a bullet that will gell the insides of them and have found the 50 gr Nosler Ballistic tip to do exactly that with a muzzle velocity over 3000 fps and up to 4000 fps. Trick is to stay off the shoulder bone, which ain't that hard to do.

For deer and hogs I prefer the 60 gr Nosler Partition punched through the lungs and out the other side with a velocity over 3000 fps and I've never seen H322 be as temp sensitive as Tim suggests. My cousins ex-wife killed 12 or more deer with her 22-250 and a 55 gr Ballistic tip, never lost one but no blood trail. Good thing they never made it out of sight.

As for the cow, she was down and I had to shoot her. Had no ammo for anything but a 223 or 22-250 and figured the 55 gr FMJ in a 223 would do better than a 50 gr NBT out of the 250. It did. First shot to the head, she stiffened up and lost her faculties so I put a few more in her head. I didn't want her to suffer anymore but after the fact, I saw the first one did all that was needed.

Choose your bullets, your shots and all is well. The 243AI is more of a speacialty thing I'm playing with for long range and maybe a contest or two but I never felt I "needed" more gun than my little ol carbeans in .223/5.56.

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 13, 2010, 01:30 PM:

Oh and for my 50 gr loads I use Benchmark and TAC with TAC begining to be my favorite. Neither are that temp sensitive.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 13, 2010, 02:19 PM:

I work up most of my loads in the fall and also dureing winter months and i use my chrony when testing loads and also use it later to double check loads when the temp.s change. There is a diffrence in the vel. of a cartridge if it is out in the cold like in youre rifles chamber when walking. Comeing straight out of youre pocket and into the chamber and then being fired i see no change.. Every year i see coyotes shot with all kinds of bullets and cal.. One day a guys rifle is doing real good one hole in and nothing comeing out and then a few days or a week later the bullet is blowing up on the surface or just makeing a big hole...
Last year one of the members of the group was noticeing this also so we went over to my place and ran his loads through the Chrony and found his 243 was shooting slower than what it was doing earlier in the year (warmer temps) useing the same load he has used all season.
What i mean by a bullet being unpredictable is just that, one day it works well and next day not so good.. It seems the ballistic tips in the 243 work better if run a little slower and a ballistic tip shot from another cal. works better if its going faster...
Tom i did'nt know youre temp.s get below freezeing where you live.. As for the H-322 i did'nt say it was temp. sensitive Nikonut said that..
speaking of temp. sensitive i thought that only applied to warm and warmer weather shooting..
I've never giveing it much thought since i only shoot in the winter and i use more than one brand of powder..

Can someone list some powders in the med. to med. slow range that are not temp. sensitive????

[ January 13, 2010, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on January 13, 2010, 03:42 PM:

quote:
As for the H-322 i did'nt say it was temp. sensitive Nikonut said that..

No... I said I've never had problems with temperature sensitivity using H322. It is a very stable, easily metered powder. One of the most accurate in the world when used in small cases like the BR and PPC's. Many, many benchrest records will attest to that fact.

If my reloads were jumping around velocity wise due to temps(high or low temps)I would be looking for new loads! Something is wrong there or the reloader doesn't understand the relationship of speed and accuracy, and finding the best sweet spot and not necessarily the fastest.

How is it that your buddies can even hit a coyote if their loads are dropping that much speed? Seems to me accuracy would be out the window...

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 13, 2010, 04:26 PM:

Most shots are out aways so either they use there bullet drop in their scope or just aim a little higher till they hit it..
I have'nt looked at any charts to see what the drop wouldbe but i don't think it would be a whole lot. As for accuracy alot of good loads that are close to max. actually shoot better with a reduced charge a gr. or so. For my loads i go for the powder that gives highest vel. and accuracy..
I've seen there groups shot from my bench and accuracy wise they are shooting really well..

edit to add: I checked the zero on my walking rifle the other day and it was about a 1" low so i dialed it in for 200 yds. To allow for the temp. changes..
I'll just have to get my chrony out and shoot two groups on different days with different temps and record it on my cam and maybe you'll understand..

[ January 13, 2010, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 13, 2010, 05:10 PM:

LOL Tim, it was 4 degrees Saturday morning when I left to go calling.

As for drop, air conditions play a big part in that, maybe temp falls in there too, dunno.

My point is I've been shooting the 50 gr NBT's at a low velocity of just over 3000 fps to a high velocity of 4000 fps and the results are the same. One just works at longer ranges.

I work my max loads up in the summer with a chronograph and once max is found then I can work on tuning them in milder weather. I have seen velocity gains by letting a round "cook" in a hot chamber but still not 300 fps.

Interesting discussion if nothing else.

Posted by jwelk (Member # 2051) on January 13, 2010, 05:32 PM:

Tim, with all of your wisdom you should be a legend in practically no time at all!

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 13, 2010, 05:50 PM:

quote:
Tim, with all of your wisdom you should be a legend in practically no time at all!

Why would I want to..

Does you mother know you are playing around on the comp. when you shouldbe doing youre home work?????

Posted by jwelk (Member # 2051) on January 13, 2010, 06:33 PM:

Always good for a laugh Tim.

Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on January 13, 2010, 07:27 PM:

What was the subject again?

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 13, 2010, 08:00 PM:

Since my question got over looked I'll ask it again.. What are some powders in the med-med.slow burn rate that are not temp. sensitive???

Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on January 14, 2010, 03:46 AM:

quote:
What was the subject again?

Uh....Tim was saying we could shoot him with a .223...they are basically harmless.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 14, 2010, 10:20 AM:

Hmm? and I thought he was saying there are better, more lethal choices? Geordie, you should be working as a Democrat spin meister. You are good!

gOOD HUNTING. lb

PS how long are we going to have to wait for a report on St Francis?

[ January 14, 2010, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on January 14, 2010, 11:56 AM:

Not much to tell about our St Francis trip. Randy and I ended up with three during the contest period. We hunted some good looking country, but the coyote numbers were limited. We both missed coyotes, but even had we killed 100% of the call ups, we would not have placed. Another year of donating to Nick and Jeremy's retirement fund.

As usual, our trip out was more sucessful...and for the most part, more adventurous. We even managed to keep from being robbed(unless you consider bidding against Nick and Jeremy in the calcuta. lol)

Here is the fur from the trip. There are two coyotes missing which we left at St Francis. The two we left were the only two not frozen to the bed of the truck....but thats another story. We left monday around 1pm and traveled a couple hours to a ranch I hunt. Our first stand produced 1 cat and 2 coyotes. We managed one more cat before dark. We thought it was a good omen. We stayed in the area and hunted one more day, killing a few more coyotes. We then traveled the next morning to the panhandle. Here we managed to call in a double I will remember for a long time. The pair charged in, and the male lept from the ground as he passed and yanked the caller from its limb 4' off the ground in a cedar tree. We killed the female, and took two shots at the fleeing, call biting, basterd. He made it to a brushy ditch, and his freedom, 50yds away. 30 seconds later and 100 yds further down, he returns to try his luck again. He survives two more running shots(won't stop for any of our tried and true coyote stopping barks) and makes to the brushy ditch he and his mate both started from. This time he travels approximatly 350 yds down the ditch, and decides to make one more try. At this point, I can not see him, but Randy yells something at me. I respond typically with 'huh?'. RShaw responds with his typical Shaw like voice inflection "HE"S..COMING..BACK!!!" And come back he did, only to die 10ft from the call(now on the ground) and fifteen feet from his mate. I am sure there is a morel here somewhere, just can't figure it out....maybe pick a taller tree...I dunno?

We traveled thursday(high winds) and scouted friday. We decided against traveling to check in sunday, and instead met Q and his wife for supper. She felt sorry enough for us, she picked up the tab...LOL.
So that is my version of St. Francis LB. Always an adventure, just rarely a paycheck..LOL

Maintain

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 14, 2010, 12:22 PM:

Wow, thanks! Not a bad story, at all. You have talent.

Well, regarding St Francis, I won't do it again. The people that have certain ranches locked up have such an advantage that it really is giving money away. (nothing personal, Jeremy)

I had a stand one time with a M1 Minaska hanging in a tree, might have been at least four feet off the ground. I didn't actually see it because I was blocked out, but Tom told me that a gray fox climbed the tree and walked out on the branch and sniffed the caller. He didn't know exactly where I was, so he didn't kill it. That has been a recuring theme, either he doesn't know where I am or I don't know where he is? Needs work.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 14, 2010, 04:07 PM:

quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What was the subject again?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uh....Tim was saying we could shoot him with a .223...they are basically harmless.

Thanks Geordie.. Just so you know i usually give a gun to a deserveing relative or friend every other year and for some reason youre name got blacked out from my list... [Wink]

Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 15, 2010, 05:58 PM:

Tim,

Most of the Hodgdon line is good for not being temp sensitive.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 15, 2010, 07:32 PM:

Thanks Tim B.. How about Ram-shot big-game and the Vihtavuori powders????

Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on January 16, 2010, 04:58 AM:

Leonard, I will not argue the fact that we have some great number of coyotes to call but I will tell you this we aren't the only team that has the number of coyotes needed. Judging by the results board on Sunday there are several teams that have equal or better places to call. There were lots of teams that saw just as many coyotes as we did and a few that saw more coyotes than we did. Last year I know of 4 other teams that were calling similar sized places in the same location as us but only one of them placed, so I guess we must be doing something else right besides just "locking" up a ranch,

Nice pile of coyotes and cats Geordie!

Jeremy Gugelmeyer

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 16, 2010, 07:06 AM:

No doubt, Jeremy. I didn't mean to offend you and I want you to know that I completely understand the situation, having been there and done that, for many years. Way before you were born, I was winning contests and killing as many and more.

My criticism is that, as a stranger coming in from California, and obligations away from the contest, I can't spend a couple weeks shaking hands and gaining permission where it looks promising.

It might be true that there are others with the same deal and the same type of opportunity, but the number of teams with a real chance of winning is relatively small. And, I'm not used to being uncompetitive, it's an uncomfortable feeling.

I'm not traveling 2,000 miles just to get my brains beat out by locals that have access. That's all I'm saying. Has nothing to do with you. I'm glad to see you doing so well. But, as with Pro football, on any given Sunday, I'd like to think that my skill set and work ethic has a chance at the prizes; and I don't believe that to be true, at the St Francis Hunt.

Get me an invite to where you hunt and maybe I can show how an old dog still has what it takes, as long as there is anywhere near an even playing field.

Absolutely no offense intended. I think you are a splendid example of what's good about contest hunting. I have no intent to minimize your accomplishments, which are considerable. I'm your friend.

Les is a good old boy, too.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on January 16, 2010, 08:26 AM:

I can see it brewing, next years winning team of Jeremy and LB!!!!

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 16, 2010, 08:56 AM:

Just as long as he would have room for my walker and my Depends didn't freeze.

Hey, I know exactly what the deal is. I used to hunt places where nobody else could go, like Mexico, for instance. Other people would work very hard to schedule the hunt as far from the border as possible and when that didn't work, they made it illegal to fly in an airplane. Or, declare Mexico out of bounds. But it always revolved around somebody having an advantage and somebody else attempting to neutralize the advantage.

This stuff has been going on for a long time.

Now, the world hunt, for instance disallows and disqualifies for hunting behind closed gates, while there is unlimited public BLM Land available.

What I see in Kansas is that most of the best areas are on private land and some of the land owners have been charging access fees, even admitting more than one team, and then splitting the prize money. Not all, but that's the rumors.

I have no quarrel with the situation. It is what it is, to use a phrase already becoming tiresome. I am addressing the reality of the situation. Perhaps ten percent of the entries have a legitimate chance at the money. I am just making note of that situation and I don't think it is fair for everybody nor worth the drive, just to shake a few hands and meet friends. I know damned well that I can kill coyotes just as well as anybody, but as the old saying goes, you can't call em if they ain't there. Meaning, I work just as hard as the winner, see four coyotes and kill two. WTF? Som ting wong?

We are just talking, no offense intended and I am not minimizing anybody's accomplishments.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by luckyjack (Member # 3462) on January 16, 2010, 09:39 AM:

"Meaning, I work just as hard as the winner, see four coyotes and kill two. WTF? Som ting wong?"

I think I see it LB. The som ting wong part that is.

The winner killed all four of the seen ones instead of only two. [Wink]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 16, 2010, 10:32 AM:

You're an idiot.

edit:
I have mentioned before that the other two were observed at a distance of 600 yards, in afterburner, going the other way. Seriously pressured coyotes. Unlike other places.

[ January 16, 2010, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by 32below (Member # 2075) on January 16, 2010, 07:15 PM:

Dangit XJ, you and Shaw found that pack I been tag team trainin' now on two years. Guess I gotta start over!

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2010, 08:32 AM:

Darn it! Looks like I've chased off Jeremy? He has recently joined NPHA. I hope it wasn't due to any misunderstanding?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 17, 2010, 09:26 AM:

Maybe he will be back?

You did apologize more or less.

EDIT: I just checked him in the user list over there. It says he registered on 10-31-09:

JeremyKS (Member #556)
User
Registered On: 10/31/09 12:33 AM
Last Online: 01/17/10 10:09 AM

[ January 17, 2010, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 17, 2010, 09:36 AM:

Anyhoo, how can I get a a P7M8 pic under my screen name?

Posted by luckyjack (Member # 3462) on January 17, 2010, 02:16 PM:

Sorry LB. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. I honestly thought the story about seeing the four coyotes and killing two was fictional and was being told as a comparasion of calling coyotes behind locked gates to calling coyotes on public ground.

I misunderstood. Sorry.

Posted by JeremyKS (Member # 736) on January 17, 2010, 02:37 PM:

Leonard you didn't chase me off.

I understand what you are saying but if you want it bad enough you can make it happen. Look at Scott and Denke, they travel a long ways(maybe not as far as CA) and they finished second last year, where there is a will there is a way.

If you only put enough effort into it to try it once and then give up you didn't try hard enough and have no basis to say that it not a level playing field. Sure it is a different playing field than what your use to but thats how it is.

Jeremy Gugelmeyer

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2010, 08:18 PM:

Glad to have you, Jeremy. We are honored, actually.

I'm not grinding on you, in any way. I just don't see where that particular contest is worth my time.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 18, 2010, 10:43 AM:

So I guess the H&K avatar is out...

We don't do many contests out my way. The predators aren't as numerous and predator hunting isn't big like it is out west.

What I didn't realize is how competitive these contests are. Looks like fun in one sense. On the other hand I think all the pressure might take away from the usual enjoyments that you would experience in normal, every day predator calling.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 18, 2010, 12:13 PM:

There are features of this program that management is not real keen on, and in polling users, right out of the gate, launching The New Huntmasters; it was determined and decided that bells and whistles, including avatars, smilies and PMs was unneeded and distracting.

If you can figure out something for your signature that conveys your allegiance and devotion, be my guest.

Good hunting. LB

edit: if you want a custom title, request it. (within reason) They are just for amusement anyway, but no avatars.

edit: you have no idea how serious are contests! No idea! Like fun, in one sense? Not really! About like the relationship between your morning commute to work, and the Indianapolis 500.

[ January 18, 2010, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 18, 2010, 04:07 PM:

Okay I'll renege on the avatar idea. You guys are probably right about that stuff being a distraction anyway.

Edit: So who benefits from the contests besides the winners? Are they used as fundraisers?

[ January 18, 2010, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on January 18, 2010, 07:33 PM:

Who benefits......the coyotes do. 413 fewer mouths to compete against for food for the rest of the winter!!!

I actually hunt in a small contest in KS. each year that is a fund raiser for the local 4-H club. Usually only about 25 teams and no real big prizes, BUT after all, it is a fund raiser, so big prizes shouldn't be expected.

Posted by Locohead (Member # 15) on January 18, 2010, 07:41 PM:

Atta boy TR! Way to think about the health of our coyote population! Fer real, I like it!

I may have to change my 'From' line in a week or two to, "1/2 mile South of TR".

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on January 18, 2010, 07:52 PM:

Danny, I'll be expecting a house warming party invite....ya know!!

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 18, 2010, 10:53 PM:

Hunt contests are as serious as bass tournaments, if that helps?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 19, 2010, 02:56 AM:

Understood about controlling the vermin pop TRnCO, as well as your contest being a fundraiser. I sit on the board of a 501c3 organization here so I know how important fundraisers are to the community. You must be a decent sort not to expect much out of the contest monetarily.

Leonard, I don't fish at all so I don't understand bass fishing contest mentality. I guess there must be a reason for organizing a contest, in other words, someone must benefit as in the 4-H in TRnCO's case. Are the contests run to raise money for the local Predator hunting organizations? Or is all the entry money put back into the contest itself.....which gets back to my original question as why contests if they aren't considered enjoyable?

[ January 19, 2010, 03:02 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]

Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 19, 2010, 06:21 AM:

It takes a different breed to hunt or fish contests. Yes they enjoy it. Some people dont enjoy it unless they are competeing. Bass fishin became that way for me. I could fish for fun now, but my body wont allow me to fish hard enough to be competitive. If I cant fish the way I want, Im just not interested.

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 19, 2010, 07:51 AM:

That makes sense...

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 19, 2010, 08:28 AM:

You need to understand, in the first place, that charity is not a motivator, for a hunt contest. That would evoke a "huh"? from everybody involved. It's strictly a macho thing.

Insofar as a learning tool, can't be beat. You find out what works and what doesn't. Forget about enjoyable, it's damned hard work, but there is satisfaction in results. If there are slim results, it's a real downer, hard to explain and it doesn't seem that you get it anyway? I dunno? A lot of people are not interested. Different strokes....

Good hunting. LB

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 19, 2010, 09:56 AM:

I guess I can understand the competive nature of some folks from afar. I get that much.

Me, I am not so much a competitive guy. I love to hunt and shoot, but I do it mostly for myself. Even when I was competing in High Power rifle matches, I didn't do it to beat the next guy, I did it to beat my own scores from previous matches. So in a sense I competed with myself.

But like you said, different strokes for different folks...

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 19, 2010, 10:44 AM:

Never played sports, eh?

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 19, 2010, 12:17 PM:

I played football, basketball,baseball and track.. I did it for the enjoyment of just playing and being outside. If we or i won an event great!! if not it was no big deal..
I did a couple of coyote contests they where fun but nothing to get really excited about...

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 19, 2010, 12:41 PM:

quote:
Never played sports, eh?

A valid question Leonard and I can see why you might think that.

I actually played football, baseball, and basket ball as a kid. In high school I played football and dabbled in wrestling for two years. I understand the team concept completely.

Competitively speaking, it never bothered me very much if we lost. If I played my own personal best then I was satisified. If we won and I didn't do my best then I was down. Again...competing with myself more or less.

Does this make me a bad team mqate? I guess my team mates would be the judge of that.

Anyhoo, maybe I should try a contest sometime. I might actually find it interesting.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 19, 2010, 01:07 PM:

Yes, interesting, from a purely intellectual perspective.

For many people, sports are fiercely competitive and for others, apparently? they just like being outdoors, fresh air, comraderie, etc.

TA must have been quite the athlete; baseball and track, spring sports, at the same time, very hard to do. But, I know, when you attend a school that has 14 boys, they all play.

I used to know this guy from Missouri, (currently living in Kentucky) told me once, he lettered in a dozen sports but I couldn't get over his manicure, polished nails and styled perfection hairdo. An accountant. Yeah, he did all that, but there was no danger of not making the team. lol Right, Tim?

Good hunting. LB

edit: PS some of you guys are going to be hammered by this rain we are getting right now. I have been hearing of twelve feet of snow in the Sierra's and 20" in our local mountains. EEK!

[ January 19, 2010, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 19, 2010, 02:14 PM:

quote:
TA must have been quite the athlete; baseball and track, spring sports, at the same time, very hard to do. But, I know, when you attend a school that has 14 boys, they all play.

LOL Leonard; As i recall we had a good number of bench warmers at the time. Not bragging but i do have three track records at the school i attended that have never been broken. ( low hurdles, high hurdles, and 880 relay)
Most of the baseball games where held on fri. and the track meets on Sat. As far as makeing training the time was just split in half each day or every-other day. With most of the coaches all they cared about was winning so they would do what they could to keep a player on the team...

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 19, 2010, 03:02 PM:

Never been broken, you say? That's pretty kool! Can I have the number at that school?

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 19, 2010, 03:33 PM:

If you really want the number i can e-mail it to you..

I'll let you in on a little secrete. Two years after i graduated they changed from yards to meters.. [Razz]

[ January 19, 2010, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on January 19, 2010, 04:43 PM:

I hate to lose at anything. I may not swell up like a toad frog that bumps his butt with every jump, but I hate it just the same.

Yep the dang rain killed my 2nd stand this evening LB.

stay after them
Kelly

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 19, 2010, 07:01 PM:

Again I don't consider it a loss if I know I did my best. Sometimes winning or losing isn't about points on the board.

Though there is no losing when the stakes are life or death. Out on the street winning is the only option.

[ January 19, 2010, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on January 20, 2010, 05:41 PM:

This 4-H fund raiser contest that my cousin and I get in every year is not nearly as competetive as the Mid-west contest is, of course, not nearly the entry money involved either. But the fun part about the fund raiser is that bobcats, coyotes, and crows count and they're on a point system. 15 pts. for a cat, 10 for a coyote, and 3 for a crow. Not a whole lot of crows in the area, but enough so that a few of the teams target crows for nearly the whole day. It's a one day event. The coyotes are hunted hard in the area, by grey hound hunters, road hunters, grandma hunters, etc. Everyone hunts them, so not many coyotes are brought in each year. 4 has been the most. Last year 2 coyotes and a cat won. But this kind of contest is more about "fun" than the others. Some of the guys that place in the money don't take the money, instead they donate it back to the cause.
This kind of contest might be more fitting for some that don't feel that they have something to prove to the world.

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 20, 2010, 06:13 PM:

That sounds more like my style.

Dare I say it sounds like....fun?

Edit: TRnCO, what's the dfference between a Mod and a Global Mod on NPHA?

[ January 20, 2010, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 20, 2010, 08:16 PM:

Why don't you tell us?

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 20, 2010, 08:20 PM:

Self-importance?

Posted by RagnCajn (Member # 879) on January 20, 2010, 09:47 PM:

To answer shooter's question. Under most circumstances and generally speaking:

A moderator of a UBB forum has the ability to edit/move/delete etc. any post in a room of which he is a moderator. His abilities are restricted to that room only of which he is listed as a moderator.

A Global Moderator has that ability throughout the entire forum. As a general rule, he does not use this ability in any room other than the one he is listed as a moderator in. He is a safeguard in the event something needs attention and the regular moderator from that room is out of touch. In most cases he will simply pull the thread for safekeeping till the Moderator from that forum has a chance to decide how he wants it handled.

edited-to correct spelling, for Dan,
and to add the disclaimer of "under most circumstances and generally speaking"

[ January 20, 2010, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: RagnCajn ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 21, 2010, 07:45 AM:

Thanks for the clarification, Randy. But, in the meantime, 49 was promoted just to give him a feel for what it's like to have all that power. Quite a thrill, I'm sure and the kind of personal service you get nowhere else.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Dan Carey (Member # 987) on January 21, 2010, 08:04 AM:

That's right generous of you Leonard.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 21, 2010, 08:33 AM:

Thank you, Dan. I had to restrain myself from bestowing Cdog with the honorary title of; SELF IMPORTANT MEMBER. So many titles, so little time.....

Good hunting. LB

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 21, 2010, 08:36 AM:

Haha. Thanks! I feel all imp-ow-tent now. [Big Grin]

Understood on the explanation Cajn. I appreciate the response.

[ January 21, 2010, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 21, 2010, 11:04 AM:

I'd much prefer "self important global moderator", if you don't mind.

I remember, some time back, Behle there thought he was important. Even got a letter from the doctor telling him so. To prove to everyone that he'd been right all along, he sent copies of that letter around to everyone he knew, and some of them fell for it,... until someone pointed out that the doc said he was "impotent". Seems he was half-blind, too. [Smile]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 21, 2010, 12:58 PM:

Consider it done!

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.0