The New Huntmastersbbs!: Not unsympathetic, but....

This is topic Not unsympathetic, but.... in forum Member forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://www.huntmastersbbs.com/cgi-bin/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=002586

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 03, 2010, 11:34 PM:

I suspect, to a certain extent, that very shortly after a person's unemployment runs out, they find work. In California, last I heard, it was 26 weeks.

Are we really helping to end a recession by paying benefits beyond 99 weeks? I'm just saying.....

Help me understand

Posted by Possumal (Member # 823) on December 04, 2010, 05:14 AM:

Leonard, I'm with you that it is confusing and poses a question that needs answering.

Looks to me that the problem lies in determining who is actually deserving and really needs help. If you actually need the help and have a sick wife who is depending on you getting what it takes to keep a roof over your head and a little something to put in your skillet, you might not care if people don't understand.

As far as my memory goes, every time any president has tried to cut down on the people on welfare, he has been shot down by elected reps on both sides of the aisle. I guess they all have constituents who won't vote for them if they don't keep the status quo?

Hell, no sense worrying about any of that stuff. Just line up all the "Have nots", and dump 'em in an acid pit. No more worries by the "Haves", and they can go buy another vacation home or some other needed thing.

Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on December 04, 2010, 07:27 AM:

Pelosi quoted what she called noted economists,she said she was told that unemployment checks put $2.00 into the ecomomy for every $1.00 paid out !

With this logic we can all quit our job and the economy will recover immediately. What planet are these people from?

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 04, 2010, 08:42 AM:

Question:: Have any of you lost youre job in the last year or so?? Pretty tuff finding a job out there.. Oh sure there's lots of minium wage jobs around, have any of you tried liveing off that kind of money??
I'm lucky I still have my job but in the last couple of years our work load was shortened by as much as a month or two, for those in the building trade there work was shortened even more.. Unemployment benifits was exstended to help out till work picked back up again...
Sure we have free loaders out there that know how to work the system, not much we can do about it...

[ December 04, 2010, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on December 04, 2010, 09:27 AM:

I lost my job March 1st, for a commercial general contractor that I had worked for for the past ten years. I made that company a lot of money and was going to buy the owners out in the next 5 years. The only work we still had going or backlogged was work I had negotiated and bid. Unforunately, we were already down to the two owners, an accountant, a receptionist, and an accounts receivable gal. The two owners took over my work and laid everyone else off but the accountant. They had to do it to survive, and they felt bad about it. It sucks, but what am I going to do?

I started a company and was incorporated March 26th. It wasn't the best way to start out with no work lined up, but nothing ventured, nothing gained, right? It has been hard, but so far I have kept everything afloat and kept my pregnant wife and two kids with food and a roof over our heads. I was able to do this because we had saved our money, lived frugally, had no payments besides our mortgage, and didn't burden ourselves with unneccesary debt. We could have survived on unemployment if needed.

Benefits need to end sometime. Pretty much everone in the construction industry has taken a pay cut. Guys reentering the work force will have to realize that they probably aren't going to go back to work for the same wage or same number of hours that they once had. You may have to bag groceries, who knows. That shouldn't take away your drive and motivation to climb back up the ladder. It may also mean selling that new truck, renting an apartment, not eating out. It will hurt, but it can be done.

Otherwise it will become another entitlement program rather than a help back up.

Posted by Bofire (Member # 221) on December 04, 2010, 09:42 AM:

Might buy them a few votes??!
Carl

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 04, 2010, 10:48 AM:

Please understand, (you too, TA) that I am sympathetic to those that are in a squeeze because of the way Chris and Barney handled the subprime, (and neither of them are in jail yet!) but my question is a bit deeper than never ending, permanent unemployment benefits.

It has to do with the Democrats obsession with taxing the shit out of everybody and everything they can think of. If we are on the road and their "vision" is raising taxes on the fella that owns the business, he is going to react just like in the previous example, lay off his employees and buckle on that tool belt. How is taxing them at a higher rate going to get the economy going?

Unemployment just went UP, in the last month and they use it as an excuse, telling us that the previous administration drove the car into a ditch. Well, for four years, the Democrats have been in charge, so that argument holds no water, at all.

Obama has done NOTHING to stimulate the economy. All he is focused on is social engineering, and now he wants congress to pay for stuff they passed in the last two years without matching funding. Had he said, we are going to add 30 million uninsured to the government funded medical insurance, and to do it, we are going to increase taxes on everybody by 15%, that would have been shot down in flames.

The fact is, he doesn't know squat about running the economy other than RAISING TAXES. That is what a SOCIALIST does when confronted with an economic issue. So, by perpetuating the unemployment benefits INDEFINITELY, a lot of people will tell you that those that get the benefits do not look for work until the spigot is shut off. Some, not all. You don't get them off their butts and willing to take a job at an entry level position, until they are forced.

I'm telling ya, this doesn't apply to most of my friends and the vast middle America, who tend to be self sufficient and resourceful, but all those Democrat constituents that work in city, county, state and federal sector, they will wait until the city, county, state or federal bureaucracy has the money to hire again and that's where you taxpayers come in. They are going to open your wallet and take what they need to get those poor Democrat voters working again. It's robbery, but Obama calls it spreading the pain, which is what every communist since Karl Marx calls it.

end of rant...show me where I'm wrong.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 04, 2010, 11:27 AM:

quote:
It has to do with the Democrats obsession with taxing the shit out of everybody and everything they can think of. If we are on the road and their "vision" is raising taxes on the fella that owns the business, he is going to react just like in the previous example, lay off his employees and buckle on that tool belt. How is taxing them at a higher rate going to get the economy going?

Not sure if I can answer this properly but these business are the ones makeing all the big money and if the gov. needs more money this is where they need to get it from.. These guys get all the tax breaks and just keep on makeing the big money and give very little to the workers.
Joe Blow construction worker makes 40,000 before taxes. After taxes and insurance he is left with 24,000 and the cost of fuel used to get to work and hotel exspense is'nt included in the 24000.00.. Now the owner of the company made over 10 million for the year, thanks to his help fource. Equipement exspense is taken out plus fuel cost and tax breaks and the owner is left with 3-4 million dollars that goes into his pocket and that don't include other money he made from his land investments and gravel pits and so on..
So we have a guy with 24,000 and another with 3 million dollars, Who do you think can afford to give up a little extra money????

Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on December 04, 2010, 11:44 AM:

WTF Tim? Why doesn't JOe Blow construction worker start his own business and start 'racking' in the big bucks? Why is it always the risk takers fault and responsibility? Because they are successful, its ok for the government to basically rob them and give to Joe? We are all suffering through this shit, but in my business, I never work for the Joe's. My pay checks come from the big, bad, evil business owners!

Maintain

Posted by Bopeye (Member # 907) on December 04, 2010, 11:48 AM:

[Eek!]

None of them! Tax the guy with three million dollars and he doesn't hire shit. He simply goes bankrupt. Keeps all his shit and then nobody ever has a chance at a damn job again.

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on December 04, 2010, 12:02 PM:

Yeah spoken like a true Democrat Tim.

Who the Hell do you think is doing all the hiring.It sure is hell ain't Joe Construction with his 24,000 dollars a year.It's the guy that makes 3 million a year that expands his business thus hiring more people.If you tax the shit out of the 3 million a year guy who is it hurting.Sure as hell ain't him.He just starts cutting back and laying people off and still has his 3 million.lol It's not rocket science.

Then guess what? Then everybodies Taxes go up (including the Middle class) to pay for all the leaches on Government Welfare.

Good Hunting Chad

[ December 04, 2010, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on December 04, 2010, 12:15 PM:

Yes it seems clear that Tim has drank the poison koolaide of Barry Obama just like most of the other Democrats. On another note, let's not forget all of those companies that have moved their factories to another country. We have less factories to hire our unemployed. Less factories equal less jobs in America. Also we need to wonder how many of our unemployed have been offered jobs, but turned them down because the pay was less than their unemployment check.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 04, 2010, 12:32 PM:

quote:
Who the Hell do you think is doing all the hiring.It sure is hell ain't Joe Construction with his 24,000 dollars a year.It's the guy that makes 3 million a year that expands his business thus hiring more people.If you tax the shit out of the 3 million a year guy who is it hurting.Sure as hell ain't him.He just starts cutting back and laying people off and still has his 3 million.lol It's not rocket science.

Not really. It just weeds out those that should'nt be in business. Problem is too many people want to be there own boss and have there own business. Thats great! problem is there are too many in certain fields. Like carpenters for example. Makes the bidding fierce for jobs with very little profit margens.
The state of Mn. in the last three years lost 9 big construction companies, not good. Those that are still around are able to find enough work for the entire season and still make a good profit.. Thats good...

As for tax increases it dose'nt matter who is in office they still go up every year...

[ December 04, 2010, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on December 04, 2010, 01:13 PM:

Tim the Dem......

She-it.

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on December 04, 2010, 01:58 PM:

So trickle up economics is the answer? [Roll Eyes]

LOL

"As for tax increases it does'nt matter who is in office they still go up every year.....

Isn't that what the Dem's and Republicans are fighting over right now,EXTENDING the Bush tax CUTS? [Wink]

Believe what you want Tim, you will be hard pressed getting me to believe that by raising taxes on the Rich it will help our Economy get back on track.I guarantee if we go down that path it will get worse not better.

Remember Jimmy Carter?

Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on December 04, 2010, 02:14 PM:

I keep waiting for the day when working men the country over wake up and realize that times have changed and that the Democratic party does not represent their best interests - if they ever did.

Times are truly tough - I'm working a union job (and currently locked out by an employer who truly deserves a union, if one ever really did) and I just about heave every time I'm around a gathering of the union faithful.

The latest kick is supporting illegals. Seems some of the locals attended a political rally hosted by organized labor and one of the main themes was how the working man should stand behind his brother the illegal.

The really sad thing is that the faithful bought in to this crap and were parroting it.

Has your union picked this line up yet, Tim?

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on December 04, 2010, 02:27 PM:

The thing that amazes me the most is the fact that even all of these highly educated Democrat Senators and Congressmen almost certainly don't believe Obama's lies, but they still remain true to this Muslim nut. Don't they realize that when America falls, then these lying ass Democrats are going down right along with the rest of us? Ron White was correct when he stated "YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID".

Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on December 04, 2010, 02:56 PM:

Tim, you really don't have a f'n clue do you?

You have had razor thin margins on bidding public works, several companies go out of business, and you think a guy is getting 30% net profits after taxes? Maybe during the good times, but I would be surprised if your employer is making more than 5%. Then think of their exposure. If your stupid ass swings a bucket and kills a guy, or you dig into a gas line, or you have large projects where the owner runs out of money, who do you think the bankruptcy courts come calling on. You? No, he takes the owners property and equipment and auctions it off, he takes the guys house, he takes the guys personal property because we put our ass on the line to get bonding.

Any idea what the tax rate is for those making more than $250,000 a year? What should be an appropriate tax rate in your socialist mind? Until you sign the front of a check instead of the back, you should get learned up, or keep your stupidity to yourself.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 04, 2010, 03:55 PM:

quote:
Has your union picked this line up yet, Tim?

The company I work for is non-union. Thats why they are still around and got good people working for them. Nothing against union for those that need it, but we don't..

Question for the union guys: If a union company is hireing who do they hire first the jobless guy with a union card or the new guy fresh off the street that dose'nt have a union card..
Also if there is a union guy thats lets say is a little under par for the job, does the company still hire him cause he has a union card??

quote:
Believe what you want Tim, you will be hard pressed getting me to believe that by raising taxes on the Rich it will help our Economy get back on track.I guarantee if we go down that path it will get worse not better.

All I'm saying is if they have to get the money from somewhere this is about the only place they can get it.. I suppose they could increase the taxes on illegals, if they could just find them.. [Roll Eyes]

I don't have the answers and really don't care cause there is'nt a dam thing I or you could do about.
But on another note you guys seem to have all the answer so maybe you should think serious about running for some type of office and then make things right..LOL

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 04, 2010, 03:59 PM:

You know the gazillions of dollars that Obama and his Democrat majority congress pissed away on so called, "shovel ready" projects? Nobody knows, or even cares what that money was spent on? They talk about a 100 million here for some "worthy" company or some agency, and we find out that those jobs cost $90,000 a piece and they sent out a half a dozen chronic out of work people with caulking guns to weatherproof a few houses in New Orleans, or someplace else with a lot of Democrats, and the houses won't know and won't care that their windows are calked to keep the spiders out because it sure as hell won't help save any energy.

Let's see, 100 million for ACORN to buy two dozen calking guns, less the overhead and administration expenses, and they recruit these guys to sell what they can for crack cocaine and the rest, they throw in a dumpster behind the 7/Eleven. Who said government isn't efficient? Okay, okay. I'm exaggerating a little bit, they probably buy FOUR dozen calking guns and a case of silicone. But, you would be surprised how much it costs to fund a program and TRAIN these people to use the equipment. It adds up.

Tim, do you have a lot of minorities in your family, or what? I can't imagine a white man that works for a living having socialist opinions. Most "folks" that don't work, get their political ideas from attending college. Your degree must be in economics, right?

Good hunting. LB

[ December 04, 2010, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on December 04, 2010, 03:59 PM:

Wow, Tim.

Tell me, how many jobs have you ever been offered from a poor man?

Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on December 04, 2010, 04:02 PM:

The biggest problem with our economy is not the businessman making money nor the union guy making $40-50,00 a year.

It is the total package of laws controlling the economy, environmental restrictions, taxes, safety measures and worst of all the real cause is LAWYERS!!! They have their hand in everything and willingly sue and charge for every penny you have... they help write the ridiculous laws and create the safeguards that cost so much. Next comes the insurance companies and banks who own all of the property and control lending. The world we live in is full of these people all with their hands in the working man's pocket.

I was union my whole working career... believed in them until they began to sell our rights away. There was a time when unions were needed to keep big business from treating the labor force like slaves, that time is now gone but will return again if there aren't unions. At the same time unions have become the boat anchor pulling many into the deep waters to drown.

The economy won't improve until banks start lending money to the little guy to spend on products made by the big guys who in turn would pay their workers a fair wage(if life was really fair).

Nothing will ever get better until we as taxpayers get rid of welfare freeloaders, baby makers, illegal workers and anchor babies, and then start taxing foreign goods to equalize the trade deficit. [Mad]

[ December 04, 2010, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: Nikonut ]

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on December 04, 2010, 04:10 PM:

Just saw this nugget...

"All I'm saying is if they have to get the money from somewhere this is about the only place they can get it.. "

Now, they can either take it as tax money, or let the "rich" re-invest that money in their operations, expand, and hire more people who will then pay their fair share of taxes while, at the same time, take them off the unemployment list. The government still gets the money as income, but doing it one way eliminates a lot of capital outlay, while the other just runs up more costs.

Where would you be if your employer had to pay higher taxes? I mean, your boss isn't on welfare, is he? I presume he has money, and likely more money than you. What if the money he pays you was mandated by law to go to the federal government? You wouldn't have a job.

That's the problem with your line of thinking, Tim. You think they ought to be taxed so the gov't can have more $$ to give as welfare and unemployment benefits. Spending that money is okay with you, except that you haven't thought it through far enough to ask where that money comes from. It comes from taxes which are generated by the sale of services and goods within the private sector. Without goods and services, the teat dries up and without income, there's nothing to tax, no taxes to fund programs, and that's the end of it. Period. If we don't get private sector industry, aka jobs and production, back up and going by letting these people use what they make to put people back to work, everything comes falling down. This has been proven time and time again when the Republicans have brought us back after the Dems have driven us into the ditch. Before socialism takes hold in this country, blood will be shed, I fear.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 04, 2010, 04:39 PM:

This is class warfare. Ordinary working class middle class people used to could afford to be a Democrat, when the Democrats stood up for working class people, union or not.

But, now, the Democratic Party doesn't see anybody but latinos and blacks and the children of middle class parents that sent their kids off to be indoctrinated by Liberal teachers and professors and came away from the experience with a completely different world view. So, you have the minorities, the labor unions and the pathetically ill informed college educated that believed the bullshit spoon fed to them, and called "education".

They really don't get it, and the worst part is that if they believe in anything, it is that they have to force their will upon the unwilling.

It's all a package. One world government. Have the United Nations decide how things should be apportioned so that those who have no property, have some of yours and mine. First things first, follow the lead of New Jersey and get those evil guns. Soylient Green. How do you spell it, Dan?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 04, 2010, 04:39 PM:

quote:
Now, they can either take it as tax money, or let the "rich" re-invest that money in their operations, expand, and hire more people who will then pay their fair share of taxes while, at the same time, take them off the unemployment list. The government still gets the money as income, but doing it one way eliminates a lot of capital outlay, while the other just runs up more costs.

A good smart company already does that, part of the profits go back into the company to buy new equipement and help the company grow, also each machine pays for its own repair.
When new equipement is bought its paid for with cash no high interest bank loans.
If the taxes are higher then the bid for jobs willbe higher, its all figured in on the bids... So tax away..

EDIT TO ADD: A few years back there was a bill in the state house to increase the fuel tax in the state to help get more money that wouldbe used to provide more jobs in the state. The owner of the company I work for helped get this bill passed by going down to the capital and talking to the right people. If he was more worried about his taxes going up then he would'nt of helped get the bill to pass.

[ December 04, 2010, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on December 04, 2010, 09:54 PM:

Corporate taxes are not figured on bids. Why would a company add any money to a bid if they have no idea if they are going to make money for the year? Just to submit a higher proposal. Labor taxes are included in bids. That is it. Maybe this explains the class warfare, because you have no idea what your employer is actually doing.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 05, 2010, 12:44 AM:

I don't know all the finer details but still know whats going on and how the company does things.
A daily progress report is sent in every nite to the office, equipement operator hrs. are document along with hrs and amount of fuel burned on each machine and amount of material moved. All this information is put into a computer to keep track of costs and production and is also used for bidding on jobs. No stone is left unturned so when bids are made they have a pretty good idea of how much to tack onto a bid for profit. The company I work for is'nt in the business to lose money. At times they even bid on jobs for a filler to just break even, but everyone is still working and the machines are makeing money. If a crew gets behind in production due to weather then a special crew is sent in to make up for lost time...
Alot of companies don't operate this way and thats why they are struggleing or no longer in business.

Posted by JohnLK (Member # 1978) on December 05, 2010, 05:23 AM:

quote:
If the taxes are higher then the bid for jobs willbe higher, its all figured in on the bids... So tax away..

.So you are admitting that rising taxes on business causes the prices of goods and services to go up. That trickles down to the average Joe.

Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on December 05, 2010, 06:32 AM:

Tim
You are by all acounts a great hunter , a great rifleman , A great trapper and fur handler , probably a great heavy equipment operator, how on earth did you accomplish all that witout a lick of common sense. Do you not see the connection between raising taxes and inflicting harm to the economy.Wealth trickles down poverty trickles up. When taxes go up investors hold on to thier capital,they can afford to wait for more profitble circumstances. Loans for growth or expasion are not available to the small and medium size bussiness owners they stop hiring and when things contiue to slow they lay off. what part of this are you missing.People that have had 99 weeks of unemployment payout are taking that money from you if thats okay with you send me a couple of grand just because I need it, didnt think so.If you are working think of your household as a bigger company than someone that is unemployed why should you fund the smaller company. I can understand the need for temporary assitance but at some point its got to end. I forgot who said it but it goes something like this ; The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money. Tim it aint that hard to grasp.

Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on December 05, 2010, 06:44 AM:

The US has one of the highest if not highest coporate tax structure in the world. Where would you take your company.

Companies that are public are owned by the shareholders,any of us with a retirement account. I want them to make money.

Taxing the so called" wealthy " a bunch does not generate enough taxes to amount to sqaut as opposed to taxing the majority a fraction.. It is simply class warfare as LB says. Find and boogey man an attack him.

I think tax cuts should be given to all Americans paying any taxes not based on earning but based on being an American citizen regardless of income.

Corporations can expense taxes and therefore spread those additional taxes over per unit cost. Raising the cost of the product to the consumer who ends up paying those taxes.

God save us from the Liberals.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 05, 2010, 07:38 AM:

Yeah, I think I'm ready for a FLAT TAX. There is nothing the Liberals can do to it, the taxing. They will have to concentrate on the spending, their forte'.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on December 05, 2010, 07:46 AM:

A FLAT tax would be good if that so called FLAT tax was actually fair. I am just a simple old Fogey but when I hear the idiots in Congress speak of a 25 percent flat tax, I slap myself in the forehead. My God guys, that would be a tremendous tax hike for every single one of us middle class folks, WTF [Confused]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 05, 2010, 09:19 AM:

Paul you need to understand, I'm not in favor of raiseing any taxes, would like to see them lowered myself. All I'm saying is if the gov. needs more money and wants to increase taxes then get it from the big companies. If they can afford to give million dollar bonus then they can afford to pay a little more taxes...
If the owner of the company I work for can help get a fuel tax increase passed in the state house and it dose'nt bother him that he also has to pay this larger fuel tax maybe its not as badd as some may think..
Now lets get to calling. [Smile]

quote:
You are by all acounts a great hunter , a great rifleman , A great trapper and fur handler

As for this comment,Thanks! But no I'm just a hunter and nothing more... [Wink]

[ December 05, 2010, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on December 05, 2010, 09:42 AM:

Tim,

You ever think that maybe he wanted to get the taxes raised on fuel so that EVERYONE that buys fuel has to pay for those jobs to be created not just the rich business owners getting taxed at a higher rate to pay for those same jobs. [Wink]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 05, 2010, 10:13 AM:

Well, you know the Democrats are going after our inheritance tax, our mortgage exemption, and our $250,000 real estate sale exemption.

I don't know what the amount of flat tax would be, but I assume there will still be deductions?

Them assholes need our money to do the social engineering things they are desperate for. Even if it costs them another election; it is that bad.

Good hunting. LB

edit: BTW, Paul what kind of weed you been smokin'? I dunno? Tim's still a road hunter, ain't he?

[ December 05, 2010, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on December 05, 2010, 10:24 AM:

quote:
edit: BTW, Paul what kind of weed you been smokin'? I dunno? Tim's still a road hunter, ain't he?

You would be surprised to find that some of youre closest friends shoot coyotes from the road. [Big Grin]

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.0