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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 08, 2011, 07:12 PM:
 
Well, after four grueling days of running my six foothold traps, I pulled all my steel and called it good. Five possums in six traps. Luckily, two of them were real Booners, the wall hanging kind.

In any event, I uploaded the final pics from my trapping vacation and thought I would share.

Of course, I did catch a smattering of coons. This guy fell into a trail set for coyotes.



And I told you I was gonna share with you a couple peculiarities with those lovely opossi (is that the plural for opossums?)

First, of course, they're a marsupial and the only one in North America, complete with their pouch, not very well developed in this juvenile female, but there nonetheless



and, aside from a two-headed, forked penis, the most surprising thing I ever saw on one was that they have fingerprints.



Of course, did a lot of calling this week and didn't see crap - the annual late Dec/ early Jan shutdown for two or three weeks that those bastards always do right before breeding time. There was this one lone coyote doing what all Kansas coyotes do - running like hell - which I came upon after turning a coner. I shodowed him from a half-mile away for most of a mkile and he never let up. Sorry for the picture quality, but I had my camera zoomed as far as it would go shooting through an open passenger side window going forty miles per hour with the coyote still most of a half-mile away.



But, I did see all these critters who came to see me while I was calling some thick stuff down in the trees hoping to stumble upon a cat.

The bird distress really pissed this fox squirrel off



And this raft of crows came back every time I switched sounds



And just as I got done, this juvie red-tailed hawk came in to check things out. Note the thickness of that grass - it's over seven feet tall when the wind doesn't have it laid over. Good place to hide a coyote and there are four coming and going from this small pasture every day, but do you think they'd stick their heads out coming to the call?!?



Part of the reason for my slowdown this year has been the pressure on these coyotes from me and the dog wagons. The wagons are staying close to home due to mange elsewhere and gas prices. For those of you who have never seen a dog wagon before, I grabbed this pic when I met one of the local crews just outside of town.



The dogs onboard this rig are a mix of Irish Wolfhound and racing greyhound stock as the guy driving that truck owns a large breeding kennel for racing greyhounds. The truck is four wheel drive with a heavy duty brushguard and push bumper and full-length skid plates to protect the undercarriage. The dogs can move from driver's to passenger-side as they need to and they keep their heads out like they are here so they can catch sight of the coyote once the driver gets a "race" going. The driver gets a coyote in open country and gets as close as he can before braking to a stop, or nearly so, then he pulls either of two cables that run from the spring lever on the doors on either side of the dog box through holes in the top rear corners of the truck cab which, in turn, unlatch the doors. The door hinges across the bottom, it falls open creating a ramp of sorts that the dogs launch themselves from, onto the ground where they take chase after the coyote. Amongst that pack of dogs is a mix of take down dogs and kill dogs. Take down dogs are faster and more agile, and their job is to grab the coyote by the hind end and roll him up. The kill dogs then grab the coyote and hold on, often grabbing it by the throat until they kill it. Most chases, once the dogs hit the ground, last less than thirty seconds, and occasionally, the coyote does escape. If it can get out of sight of the dogs, they'll literally forget what they were doing and just stop and mill around. Greyhounds are strictly sight hounds and do not track by scent.

[ January 08, 2011, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 08, 2011, 07:31 PM:
 
Don't worry about my bandwidth, it's my gift to the sport. Besides, your subject was/is something with which I am not familiar.

Also, it's amazing that opossum let's you handle him like that!

Good hunting. LB

edit: those coons are so darn cute. I can't bring myself to kill them, called them in before but I always hold my fire.

[ January 08, 2011, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 08, 2011, 07:55 PM:
 

quote:

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edit: those coons are so darn cute. I can't bring myself to kill them, called them in before but I always hold my fire.

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Thats the Californian in you trying to get out...
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 09, 2011, 03:56 AM:
 
Interesting and informative post Cdog.

I must say, dog wagons are not my idea of hunting.
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on January 09, 2011, 08:39 AM:
 
I just wish I had the cash that truck and those dogs cost... I could probably buy a new house!

I love dogs and hunting, but chase dogs don't thrill me. It's almost as bad as dogfights but to each their own. It's been done that way since way before any of us or our ancestors even thought about hunting with a gun.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 09, 2011, 09:49 AM:
 
A lot of ppl think that way, 49, and Niko, you're right, but I'm not interested, in today's world, of condemning another man's way of hunting his game as long as he abides by the laws. A number of the dog guys condemn rifle shooters because, in their minds, we wing as many as we kill and those coyotes become calf killers. To each his own, as long as they don't condemn me, we're good. I maintain a pretty good relationship with the area dog crews. They know what I do and I know how they do their thing and we try to give each other enough room to be safe and have fun. My family started coursing coyotes with greyhounds back when my granddad was in high school and used a 1930-something Buick with the rear doors remounted and hinged along the bottom and a 1X12 bulkhead behind the front seat to keep the dogs in the back.
 

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Posted by booger (Member # 3602) on January 09, 2011, 09:52 AM:
 
Interesting, Lance--did manage to get one to bark at me yesterday very early during my howling sequence, but that was it. Thought I would catch them out and about ahead of the storm coming, but no luck.

That is a great pic of the running coyote...used to be a lot of dog hunters around Russell, but they have morphed to running and gunning them with shotguns.
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on January 09, 2011, 10:53 AM:
 

quote:

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I must say, dog wagons are not my idea of hunting.

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And YOUR experience with dog wagons is what???

Here Lance, off season use for hunting rig.




I have hunted hogs,coyotes,coons, and even bobcats with hounds. I also currently have a little group of beagles that are hell on a rabbit. Some of the old houndsman(coyote) I know are some of the most knowledgeable people I have met when it comes to the behaviors of their target animals. Comments claiming hound hunting(including sight dogs) is not really hunting parallel other ridiculous comments like 'night hunting is not sporting and fair to the animal'. Whatever!! 90% of the people making the comments have no experience with which they speak.

Maintain
 

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Posted by trapper2 (Member # 3651) on January 09, 2011, 11:09 AM:
 
wish i was where i could still go with some runners, man its fun to be there and watch
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 09, 2011, 11:22 AM:
 
Keep it up, Clark Kent and we might have to yank your Moderating position. I KNOW you don't want that! What's this about night hunting not being sporting? Where'd ya hear that?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on January 09, 2011, 11:46 AM:
 

quote:

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I love dogs and hunting, but chase dogs don't thrill me. It's almost as bad as dogfights but to each their own. It's been done that way since way before any of us or our ancestors even thought about hunting with a gun.

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Again, I personally don't much care for this style hunting but if it's legal then it's ok with me as well.
I got a bad taste from a group here running across my hunting grounds without permission. Their dogs almost killed my farmer's Jack Russell and he was pissed!!! Almost cost me MY hunting spot.

I agree that doghunters are some of the most knowledgeable coyote hunters out there... I think it's bred into many of them as a way of life... I'm OK with that, too.
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on January 09, 2011, 11:56 AM:
 
Hey Lance...

Great post on trapping, too!

That cat is a beauty. Thanks for starting this post, it shows there are other things to do than just shoot coyotes!
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 09, 2011, 02:09 PM:
 
Tim,

Whatever atmospheric/ environmental/ spiritual/ whatever factor was in play around here for the past two weeks apparently shut down for a while yesterday morning as that picture is the one and only coyote we'd seen out and about during that period. Very few deer out either. Then, yesterday morning, between my buddy and me, from sunrise to when the clouds moved in about 10:30 yesterday morning, we saw thirteen different coyotes, nearly forty deer and the skies were full of Canadas flying ahead of this storm system. Didn't call any coyotes, but they were sure running.

I can and will go on official record as saying that running coyotes with greyhounds is one of the most exciting ways to hunt them you will find. Very expensive, too. In cases where I have a coyote that won't respond to calls, I will occasionally call in a dog crew to run him out and kill him for me. My version of aerial gunning and an airstrike. Sure, they get themselves into some trouble with landowners, but not all are bad, pretty much the same as with callers and other genres of hunters. As far as their knowledge levels, I have one guy locally who was chasing them before I was born. In fact, his dad ran them with my grandpa back in "the day" and when I began chasing coyotes at 3 years old, his dog wagon, along with his dad's and my grandpa's, were the ones my dad and uncles hunted with. Good times. And Steve has nearly thirty years of records for every day he's hunted, every coyote he's killed, where, time of day and weather conditions. In his opinion, barometric pressure is the strongest influence on whether coyotes will move or not. I would dearly love to get hold of that information and subject it to statistical testing. Anecdotally, he says it's not worth going out if the barometer is below 30 or just above there and falling, FWIW.

As far as the wagons go, I have always suggested that they could be put to good use in large cities in bringing gangs and crime under control. If you watch "COPS" at all, you know that every time they have a car chase, it's some ignorant, uneducated inner city youth who bails out and runs on foot. When they catch him in his wife beater T-shirt and baggy pants, he always ran because his "driver's license was suspended".

Here's my suggestion...

3/4 ton Chevy or Ford 4X4 flatbed truck. Black and white with all the right lights, light bar and everything. Skid plates so they can jump curbs and and drive through underbrush and stuff, too, without damaging the truck. Five dogs to a truck. Wire-haired greyhound/ staghound sorts, nasty and all scarred about their faces, just like coyote dogs. Hell, paint 'em with a little blood like a coyote dog so they look like they've already been busy that night.

Call comes out about a "runner". "Enhanced Canine Unit", or ECU called in to assist. Dirtbag runs, hears doors drop, end of chase. I bet you that you'll only have to dump those dogs once, twice, three times at most before word gets around and all that running ceases immediately! Hell, just the sight of the ECU will have those whacky kids bailing out at intersections and spreading eagle on the pavement
"proactively" just to keep from being taken down. LOL
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 10, 2011, 12:11 AM:
 
You know, Lance. I have always suggested barometric pressure as a big influence on coyote behavior, but I never got a whole lot of agreement on the issue, mostly, none.

Okay, dog wagons might work? Sometimes I think they should just shoot the bastards.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Patterson (Member # 3304) on January 10, 2011, 09:30 AM:
 
Awesome photos Lance! Never knew that about possums.

I used to always dislike the dog runners and never thought it was sporting. But as CrossJ said most people like that dont have the knowlege about it to make a judgement. It was up until a calling contest last month when I got to talk to TRinCO that I gained a little respect for what the dog runners do. It sounds like a lot more work and effort than I had believed. Lots of planning, equipment and its more about watching the dogs. I had always just seen the dog trucks around randomly and thought they just drove around until they saw a coyote and released the dogs permission or not. I understand some do that but most do it the right way. TR kinda got me actually wanting to see it done once. Also had some great stories about the dogs getting away or dogs that got free passes after out running several groups of chase dogs. Gained a lot more respect from talking with him and a different perspective of it. Coming from Colorado and never seeing dog runners where I was raised it was weird seeing them around all the time here.

It still doest mean I dont cringe when im out calling and see one go by in a area I call!!!!!
 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on January 10, 2011, 01:13 PM:
 
I really enjoyed the photos and explanation on that dogwagon Lance. Thanks for posting it up. I was only exposed to it with a buddy up here when I was real young. Nothing elaborate, just a small pick-up with the dogs in the back in a canopy and turned loose after a fun road chase. He used a pair of dogs as well. One was almost a full Irish Setter, and the other was a greyhound crossed with something, but I couldn't tell you what.

You guys have it down to a science.
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on January 10, 2011, 09:00 PM:
 
I saw a crew of chase dog guys out here, while out calling, down in Bakersfield area, that had a couple trucks with FULL exo-cages. The front end of the rack was built out pretty far from the front of the truck and sloped back at a steep angle all the way over the cab. They said it was for running full blast thru barbed wire, or any other, fences! Of course they said it wrecked the fence but oh well. Im like...Huh? Really? Yep, do it all the time they said.
Crazy people out here Im tellin' ya.

btw, I still know guys that run coyotes down with pickup trucks and shoot em out here. Even after predator calling has blown up like it has over the last several years, they still do not believe they can be called, I mean, anyone can jump on You Tube you know?
Mark
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 10, 2011, 09:20 PM:
 
And, because of dinks like that, we get all sorts of militant enforcement just because we pull off the two track enough to be out of the way. It's always stuff like that, that ruin things for everybody.

Good hunting.

Auburn wins. whatever
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on January 10, 2011, 11:15 PM:
 
These threads are what HM is all about. I gleaned a small nugget reading this on a subject that has intrigued me for years, but like the host's experiences, nobody else seems to have much interest in the notion. It's picking up a scrap like that that makes the bickering and blow harding a small price to pay for admission here.

Thank you Mr Cdog911!
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 11, 2011, 01:35 PM:
 

quote:

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And YOUR experience with dog wagons is what???

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quote:

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That's the way I feel about boar hunting with dogs. I have done it and won't do it again.

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quote:

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As for 49....I guess I was addressing his preconcieved notions about sight dogs(which he admits to having no experience). Kinda like people assuming all cops are egotistical donut eaters with a god complex.

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quote:

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I feel sorry for the poor slob who might decide to break into my house though. You know, Dobermans aren't bred for hunting.

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Thats EXACTLY my point!

You're not averse to have your dog chew on a person (execute what it was originally bred for) yet you turn your nose at a hunter who chooses to follow in the tradition of coursing hounds? Those dogs are doing what they were bred for, too...

So what IS the difference?

If anything, the difference is that your Dobie is most likely so far removed from being 'performance bred' that you'd better keep your pistola handy in the event of a break-in.
(that's coming from a former owner of a Dobie)

Unless of course you've got a working bred Dobie from Schutzhund lines (a rarity in the States) or got one straight from the 'fatherland'...

I'm not picking on your dog, but trying to make a point & I am quite fond a Dobermans, as a breed. Unfortunately, like soooo many other breeds, they've been over-bred by the AKC crowd for aesthetics, not performance...

Houndsmen who hunt with dogs are keeping a tradition of performance bred animals alive, and HUNTING them is the only way to judge that performance.
If it weren't for them, we'd all be stuck with a bunch of pretty 'cookie cutter' show breeds that couldn't hunt their way out of a paper bag...

I want more from my dog than that & thank the HUNTERS for allowing me the opportunity to have it!
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 12, 2011, 08:25 AM:
 
Dogwagons is a topic that always seems to push someones hot button, I used to hate the bastards for the simple reason that they DONT get permission to run several miles at a time they often just do it and assume it is fine with the landowners & those who actually have permission & are hunting at the time. They bust fences, mistreat their animals & in general were arrogant pricks....BUT...I spent some time butting heads on this subject with Bret Vaughn from New Mexico & before it was over I came to the understanding of what was really going on.

I was wrong about dog wagons, granted there are some real dumbshits out there but that shouldnt shine poorly on the entire dogwagon community. I would love to go with someone like Bret or Cross J & see it done the way it should be. I love dogs & have 2 that I use for coyotes & for kill dogs with coons, it aint for everyone but we should give our dog guys the benefit of the doubt before we condemn them. There will always be dipshits among us, TA for example, but dont knock hunting with dogs until you try it or at least educate yourself on the matter, a little due diligence sure changed my mind.

btw I encourage my dogs to kill any animal they can get their teeth into & their damn good at it & seem to enjoy every second of it, I dont have runners even if I make a bad shot on a coyote & coons only have about 10 seconds after they hit the ground, sorry LB but Rocky doesnt stand a chance.

I would love to go hog hunting over dogs sometime just to see how it works.

Just my 2 cents worth, dont bother asking for change, its free today.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 12, 2011, 10:15 AM:
 
I'm not sticking up for him, but it is a common remark, if not particularly tactful. Whether from ignorance, or a personal conviction, we do hear similar comments from time to time. Especially from those that live in the city and take their Yorkies for walks on concrete.

Come on, guys. I have to routinely defend predator hunting, to hunters that have a notion that "hunting" is only okay, if I eat the meat. But, there are people that think much less of me, when they hear about my hobby.

Some offer an unsolicited opinion, some do it behind my back. Every one of us knows when and how to ignore opinion. You just can't debate every issue until someone gets a red ass.

But, go ahead. I'm not lecturing or moderating, just expressing an opinion. Get it out of your system, if you must.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 12, 2011, 03:12 PM:
 

quote:

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Unless of course you've got a working bred Dobie from Schutzhund lines

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Bingo.

Any more questions?
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 12, 2011, 03:18 PM:
 
Guys,

I don't agree with certain types of hunting.
Since we are on a hunting forum I don't mind saying so. If you guys want to run coyotes down with trucks and dogs that is your business. Have at it. I don't agree with it, so I won't participate.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 12, 2011, 04:31 PM:
 
If only I were King...

Trapping, running game with dogs, even hunting in general makes alot of folk uneasy. Of course if you "promote" the sport like deer hunting it's all okay but the rest of us filthy SOB's are going to hell.

I forget but 49, weren't you gonna turn your pet loose on a coyote awhile back? Why do you kill coyotes?

I prefer folks have an educated opinion before they condemn something they know nothing about.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 12, 2011, 05:09 PM:
 
Tom, you ought to go back and find that post from a year ago. The dog went after a coyote, and I stopped him.

Who wants to take a potshot at 49 next?
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 12, 2011, 06:20 PM:
 
I couldn't remember exactly.

Taking potshots? Not at all, of course if you feel that way then move away from the target...
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 12, 2011, 09:28 PM:
 
49 "Who wants to take a potshot at 49 next?"

Aww heck man, I really do wanna be next, butI'm kinda busy right now, can I take a rain check on that?

Krusty
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on January 12, 2011, 10:51 PM:
 
You fellas might as well start shooting at me, too.

I think 49 and I feel the same about chase dogs and kill dogs and I really don't see that trying to justify the practise because it's been done that way for centuries works for either of us, even if I did bring that point up.

quote:

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Nikonut: I love dogs and hunting, but chase dogs don't thrill me. It's almost as bad as dogfights but to each their own. It's been done that way since way before any of us or our ancestors even thought about hunting with a gun.

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Before any of you jump up and down and start to rant you need to read our previous posts... We have both said we don't necessarily like or care to hunt coyotes or even hogs with dogs but we have both said if it's legal then it is up to the individual.

My beef with chase hounds is in their trespassing. I also feel the same when it's a deer hunter, 4wheeler/snowmobile, or another predator hunter!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 13, 2011, 12:11 AM:
 
I'm not sure how this crap got twisted? Potshots, based on whether someone likes one method of hunting is not right. There may be ethical or moral and legal issues involved. Judge not, lest yea should be judged.

I don't think anyone should take potshots at anyone else for expressing their opinion. If I say that I have a problem, (on a personal level) with bow hunting, that's my opinion and I am entitled to that opinion, whether I am knowledgeable about the subject, or not.

That does not mean that I intend to take "potshots" at bow hunters, nor does it mean that bow hunters should try to pick a fight with me because I expressed my opinion.

On the other hand, we should try, as much as possible, to be non judgmental with our fraternal brothers that just happen do things differently than we do.

We all don't need to agree on every aspect of hunting, assuming that it is legal. I know a man on this board that quit hunting with a longtime partner because the guy insisted on bringing his dogs on a stand. Some people believe dogs get in the way, are a lot of trouble, smear all the windows and scare coyotes. Some dogs behave, some don't. And, some people go to a lot of trouble to rig up accommodations for their dogs.

There are a lot of ways to look at these issues. I think, if we learn something, it's worthwhile. On both sides.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 13, 2011, 03:08 AM:
 
Fair enough Leonard.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on January 13, 2011, 04:54 AM:
 
Nick,
I feel now that I need to explain myself further, to clear the air.

When a man expresses his opinion on a forum, a response to counter that opinion is not a 'pot shot', per say.

In this case, I find it 'funny' for a man (you) who owns a 'working breed' of dog as a mere pet to condemn the actions of another man who raises, trains & USES a true 'working breed' in the capacity it was bred for.
Thats not a slight against your dog, or a 'pot shot' against you, that is me interjecting into what I perceive to be utter hypocracy.

If I'd have added this, you could call it a 'pot shot':
I got over my "gotta have a tough dog to sit on the couch all day and bully everyone at the dog park" phase by age 22.

See the difference?

And should add that a dog bred from working lines and a dog that actually WORKS can be two COMPLETELY different animals.

FACT, not a 'pot shot'.

(And I won't ask you if your show dog from Schutzhund lines is actually titled in Schutzhund or French Ring since that would add only more relevance to my point, which doesn't need further substantiation and may again be misconstrued as another 'pot shot'.

The above, combined with the fact you admitted to never having participated in the type of hunting you speak against, are what led me to post what I did.

That type of passively judgmental attitude drives me friggin' NUTS.

You certainly are entitled to your opinion & feelings. But once shared on an internet forum, being scrutinized for sharing them goes hand in hand. Especially when a 'touchy' subject is at the core of the discussion.

Nothing personal, dude.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 13, 2011, 05:34 AM:
 
Yankees! (no offense Fred) ((or you either 49))

49, I did look up that old thread and it sure seems like you waited a long time to hit the button. In fact you waited until Cooper got on his tail, out of sight and heard yelps before bringing him back. You then proceeded to check his mouth for fur and blood, then wrote "fun stuff".

Now that's not a pot shot, that's fact and now you say you don't allow your dog to kill other animals, justifying your discontent over chase dogs. You are entitled to your opinion but a man should be prepared to back it up. There's lots of folk who don't like hunting at all with any method, THAT'S THE TARGET! Choose your sides carefully.

My uncle used to run "wolf" hounds, I never have. Never had the chance to nor do I partcularly care to, I like to call em and shoot em but I have run coon hounds and bird dogs. Now if I had the time, I'd get me some dogs and start after the hogs around here because they are destroying our habitat. Dogs are the best way to kill them, save the helicopter and shooter but they won't let me fly.

Now quit getting twisted up and just debate your point. No ones out to get you, certainly not me.

[ January 13, 2011, 05:38 AM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
 

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Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on January 13, 2011, 06:50 AM:
 
Can't help it. I ran hounds for years in the Pacific Northwest after black bears and in the winter for bobcats and lions. During that time I got to know a couple guys on the eastern side of the mountains that ran greyhounds and a few other types of dogs after coyotes. Both experiances were some of the most fun hunting I have ever had.If I had the money, I got the time, I would love to get a couple good cat dogs for here in Nevada. You really have to experiance it to know what is involved with being successful at running dogs after game and predators.It is all fun and to those that still do it I say right-on and keep at it while you can....Walt
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 13, 2011, 07:59 AM:
 
There is a difference between having a discussion and disagreeing about certain types of hunting, and throwing shots at another hunter for having an opinion that differs from your own.

Case in point...Fred, your post here is a shot:

quote:

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Funny how the guy with the Doberman for a house pet doesn't agree with the use of REAL "tough dogs" being hunted in the capacity which they were bred for hundreds of years...

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If you disagree with me Fred then say so, and offer your reasons why. I may be a stubborn guy but I may be more open minded than you might think. Your above comment served no constructive addition to the discussion, and seemed like a "shot" more than anything else. But that's okay too. Just don't be angry when I call the shots like I see 'em.

In relation to your comment, just because my dog was bred as a guard dog doesn't mean he has to bite someone. As a matter of fact, I don't want him to, unless an intruder comes in my home, and more importantly in defense of my family when I am not around. Yep, the pistolas remain at the ready. Mrs. 49 is a fair shot herself. So is my older son. In answering your question...no, the dog isn't titled.

I am not condemning you guys for your opinions like you are condemning me for mine. You hunt the way you see fit. If I don't agree I will tell you, since we are on a hunting forum, and we discuss of all things, hunting. I don't have any firsthand experience with dog wagons. Some say that means I don't have a right to an opinion. Conversely, I am not a terrorist nor am I a murderer, though I have strong opinions about both subjects. Am I not qualified to have an opinion on these because I don't partake in them?

Now I will tell you I don't agree with mountain lion hunting with dogs. I feel shooting a treed mountain lion is not a challenge to me, and I don't think it is sporting. Do I condemn another hunter for it? Nope. I just won't partake in it cuz it's not my cup 'o tea. If I ever have occasion to shoot a mountain lion, a would rather do so having called it in. That's my opinion, and I am sticking too it.

Tom, yes Cooper went after the coyote. I gave him multiple shocks with the shock collar to get him to stop. He took the pain for a while, hence the yelps, which I realized later were from him and not from the coyote after I checked his mouth. My comment "fun stuff" was meant tongue in cheek. As I have already stated, I don't allow him to kill other animals. At least when I can help it.

Anyway, I am fully prepared to back up my opinions. I don't think I am disrespectful when I do so either, or at least I try not to be. LOL you guys act like I am the antichrist for having a differing opinion than yours. I think that's part of the the problem in this instance. So be it.

-49

[ January 13, 2011, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on January 13, 2011, 09:37 AM:
 
Whatever your opinion on using dogs to kill coyotes, I think you are way off in comparing it to hound hunting for treeing bears and cats. Treeing lions and bears is the best way to judge the sex and size of these predators. It allows you to selectively harvest mature animals, animals without young, and insures a good clean kill if you harvest the animal.

That type of hound hunting is more comparable to any type of big game hunting that allows you to selectively harvest the targeted animal. Like your tree stand hunting.

Like others on here, I just want you to base your opinion on other methods of hunting based on knowledge of the sport, not preconceived notions or imaginary scenarios created by Disney ideals.

You give us insight to the law enforcement world even though most of us have preconceived, and often strong, opinions of that line of work.

[ January 13, 2011, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: tlbradford ]
 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on January 13, 2011, 09:46 AM:
 
Your naivety shows when you state that hunting cougars with dogs is not challenging. Next time you guys get 3 feet of snow, go to the closest mountain, find a really steep ravine, and climb up one side and down the other.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 13, 2011, 11:56 AM:
 
I should probably stay out of this one, but......

My problem with dog hunting is the sport that hires a guide with a pack to chase down (fill in the blank) animal. The sport tags along, managing to not have a heart attack while the guide does all of the work, then shoots the treed animal. Many hero photos are taken, proof that the sport is a mighty hunter.

Contrast the above with the guy who breeds & builds & trains his pack. Year round commitment. Now the guy finds the sign, reads the tracks, & runs the dogs. This is a team effort & a whole 'nother thing. It's not my style of hunting but it's certainly a valid way to hunt & any game taken is more than earned.

Sorry if my comments piss anybody off; If I'm not calling, I'm a still-hunt, spot & stalk with a pointed stick guy.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 13, 2011, 12:12 PM:
 
I appreciate those comments, koko. It be hard to parse lion hunting with dogs, and dude clients that pot a lion out of a tree for X amount of dollars. I think a called lion is earned and some methods of treeing lions with dogs is a little further down the scale of worthy accomplishments. At the same time, giving full credit to those that climb that mountain with three feet of snow on it.

What we are talking about here is things we like to do and stuff we aren't interested in doing. You know, black guns, stuff like that?

Grown men have preferences, likes and dislikes.........who knew?

Good hunting. LB

[ January 13, 2011, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 13, 2011, 12:55 PM:
 
Tlb, why does it make me naive because I hold an opinion that differs from others?

Do I respect the physical challenge of climbing mountians in feet of snow in pursuit of lion?

Absolutely.

Do I respect the ability of a hunter to shoot a lion out of a tree? Not so much..

Though I respect your opinions, and your right to be able to hunt in the manner you wish.

Again...it just isn't for me.

Edit:

quote:

---

You give us insight to the law enforcement world even though most of us have preconceived, and often strong, opinions of that line of work.

---

quote:

---

Why did you spend the first 6 months here showing us videos and pointing out how cops have our best interest at heart?

---

Cuz it was fun.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 13, 2011, 02:00 PM:
 
I still say, you guys need a beer summit. Or, the octagon.

Good hunting. LB

PS, 49, everybody has an opinion about L.E. Because a fair share of the contact is negative, traffic citations, etc. Sure, they come in handy when someone breaks into the house, but that doesn't happen often, versus those cs tickets.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 13, 2011, 02:07 PM:
 

quote:

---

PS, 49, everybody has an opinion about L.E. Because a fair share of the contact is negative, traffic citations, etc. Sure, they come in handy when someone breaks into the house, but that doesn't happen often, versus those cs tickets.

---

Understood Leonard.

I will cease and desist if you want.

[ January 13, 2011, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 13, 2011, 03:32 PM:
 
I didn't ask you to do that. I'm just saying, for a lot of people, their contact is negative, even if they are otherwise a fine upstanding citizen. You L.E. guys understand that. And, that's why you generally seek out others in the same line of work. Just about the highest rate of divorce and suicide and nobody understands. I get it.

I'm not requesting anybody to cool their jets, I'm just stepping in here trying to help, if I can. If you people can iron things out, as long as the conversation keeps going, there's hope and at least a small insight into other ways of looking at things.

Come on, trading digs about friggin' dogs is not going to solve anything. Most people like dogs; I know I do. But, I'd just as soon shoot a mean dog as look at him. This is man's best friend, not the Hound of the Baskervilles.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 13, 2011, 06:47 PM:
 
" I'd just as soon shoot a mean dog as look at him."

I'm all for that. Just the mailman in me coming out. LOL

BTW, took delivery of a new EBR today. Wanted to get one before the revolution begins. Gonna leave it black for a while.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 13, 2011, 07:26 PM:
 
"Cuz it was fun."

As bad as I hate to admit it, it is fun. Beats the heck out of tv.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 13, 2011, 07:27 PM:
 
Cdude, whad'ya get?
 

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Posted by 32below (Member # 2075) on January 13, 2011, 08:39 PM:
 
Ain’t a mail man but I have the same attitude as Lance. Last time I got bit I was delivering an easement check to a farmer. His wife was the only one home and their mutt took exception with me being there. I got the last laugh however as he had to sit down and lick his butt to get the taste outta his mouth.
 

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Posted by Briguy (Member # 3471) on January 13, 2011, 09:37 PM:
 
Okay, I'm trying to figure out. Are we saying that if a guy is on stand rotating with the caller over his head, and I don't agree with that method, but I've never done it that way, I can't bag on the guy? Say it isn't so!!!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 13, 2011, 09:50 PM:
 
You have a point.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 13, 2011, 10:04 PM:
 
Aaaah the old double standards. Its ok if he does, but not ok if someone else does it..

As for the dogs, love shooting them as much as coyotes...

[ January 13, 2011, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 13, 2011, 11:06 PM:
 
Nothing wrong with stating things you disagree with, for example...I think TA should be permanently banned from the WWW in all English speaking countries for the simple fact that he spews so much meaningless bullshit that anyone who reads one of his posts needs to go through a week of therapy to regain all their lost IQ points, it`s been reported that people who read too many of his posts have been seen mumbling & stumbling around aimlessly trying to figure out how to spell their own names & wondering if punctuation marks really have any purpose, if he continues much longer the AMA will have to label the adverse effects as some sort of syndrome like T.A.S. (total asshat syndrome}

Other side effects include sawing off the barrel of your shotgun so you can use it to shoot deer, tucking your pants into your boots, sewing patches on your jacket, holding your caller above your head & turning it 360 degrees on a stand, trying to fit your head up your ass while you post on hunting forums.....there are volumes yet to be written about this syndrome so be careful out there on the WWW you just never know when you`ll stumble across one of his posts & end up with a lower IQ or worse.

Anyway, I like to hear why people approve of things or DONT approve. Dogs are always a touchy subject but that`s OK.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 13, 2011, 11:37 PM:
 
JD (just a dick) I suppose we could take up a collection to help cover youre therapy sessions, not that its going to help any..

Since you mentioned it. whats wrong with sawing off part of a shotgun barrel to make it easier to handle in thick brush or make it lighter????
Yeh I tuck my pants legs in on the one style of boots I have.. Makes it easier to pull the side zipper up and thats also how they are to be worn... I suppose I could wear them like the cowboys do and tuck one pants leg in and leave other one out..LOL
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on January 14, 2011, 04:50 AM:
 
Nick,
You're right, that 1st one was pretty much a 'shot', so I take it back. Was trying to make a point via inference & shoulda just out & stated my case with tact instead.

So, with the spirit of the comradarie of Leonard's board in mind, I owe ya a beer, to boot.

b.t.w.
I've got a PA license if ya ever wanna hold me to it, after a couple stands
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 14, 2011, 09:36 AM:
 
Come on, everybody sing along: WE ARE THE WORLD.............

edit: you must be somewhat chummy? I didn't know his name was NICK.

[ January 14, 2011, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 14, 2011, 01:08 PM:
 
Sheesh Leonard it took you all this time? LOL.

Sounds good Fred. I'm not a beer drinker but I like's my Bacardi.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 14, 2011, 01:14 PM:
 
FRED?
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 14, 2011, 01:17 PM:
 
Knockemdown.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 14, 2011, 02:37 PM:
 
That was a JOKE. You L.E. types are a little slow on the upswing. I ain't that dense. Not quiet.

Good hunting. LB

edit: that's a joke, too! ^

[ January 14, 2011, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 14, 2011, 02:42 PM:
 
Must be a west coast thing.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 14, 2011, 03:15 PM:
 
That's not quiet right, Fred knows everyone from Jersy is named Nick or Dom, he just got lucky.
 

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Posted by Briguy (Member # 3471) on January 14, 2011, 04:04 PM:
 
Okay, I know LB has his "okay to jack a thread" policy, but when we spin it to a TA bash, it should stay a TA bash...just sayin'.

Also, you all working out your differences and getting all sensative is turing this thread in a real SNOOZER...

No Tim slappin', no controversy, no animosity...what's next, no actual coyote huntin as a major topic of conversation? Oh, wait, what am I saying...

Alright, kidding...will say that I have never had the pleasure of working over really good dogs in any situation. It's always fascinated me, and I do have a couple black labs I thought would make good birders, but just never had the patience to get them there. Might have to put that one on my bucket list.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 14, 2011, 04:18 PM:
 
Yeah, it's almost as if Berry is moderating, huh?

I think, if I ever get another dog, it will be a coon hound. I love the ears and the voice and the attitude.

Good hunting. LB

Thanks for doing your job, bri
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 14, 2011, 04:54 PM:
 
Calm down, 49 is an idiot for being so closed minded.

That better?
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on January 14, 2011, 05:29 PM:
 
LB - I got 3/4 cur 1/4 jag "thats how we say it in okie land" puppies you want one or three?

Speaking of three and to help get 49 back on coyote hunting, got a nice triple after work this evening.

Please forgive the machine gun, you know how handy they are on multiples...lol



PS for unknown - no prey distresss used on this stand.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 14, 2011, 07:13 PM:
 
Nice. Gonna get back out in the woods next week.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 14, 2011, 07:17 PM:
 
Hey Kelly, what is that bipod? Are the legs long enough for sitting on a stool? Looks like it?

Keep after 'em

Good hunting. El Bee

PS I'm sure 49 appreciates your effort
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on January 14, 2011, 07:27 PM:
 
LB yes, with modification. I took a caldwell sitting model and then two 3/8's fiberglass hot wire fence post. With just a small amount of drill work they will slip inside. I put them on the rifle backwards and have them hacksawed for sitting on a real short seat-just flip them out and go, and have the legs marked for dove stool height, which I like the best.
I was on the dove stool this evening. Plenty of mesquites to back up against.

What about the puppies???

[ January 14, 2011, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 14, 2011, 11:28 PM:
 
Thanks, but I have been sorta thinking about a Bluetick.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 15, 2011, 10:04 AM:
 
Good choice Leonard.. I've always liked the English/redticks myself.. http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/Dogs/Dogpictures002.jpg[/IMG]] http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/Dogs/Dogpictures001.jpg[/IMG]]
 

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Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on January 15, 2011, 01:38 PM:
 
Fred? Fred who. did'nt know he was a preditor Take him with you for a day TA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vziUC1IT0wo

[ January 15, 2011, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: the bearhunter ]
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on January 17, 2011, 01:23 PM:
 
Tim is that picture from 1976 or what LOL.

Grand Champion coon hound show pic I presume.......

[ January 17, 2011, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: coyote whacker ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 17, 2011, 01:28 PM:
 
Uh, Tim;
What are you doing with Ted Kaczynski's cabin??
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 17, 2011, 02:49 PM:
 
The pic. is from the mid. 80's. The dogs both have champion blood lines but I never competed with them. Nice thing about good blood-lines is the less time you have to spend training them..
I ran coon with mine and very seldom had them kill one, thats what the gun is for..

As for the two brown buildings they are called fish house's used for ice fishing.. At the time we had 8 of them some pretty fancey compared to one's in picture. We set them on a lake up in the north central part of the state and I used one as a base camp. Hunted and called dureing the day and fished at nite. We would stay on the lake 4-5 days at a time.... The good life....
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 17, 2011, 05:46 PM:
 

quote:

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Nice thing about good blood-lines is the less time you have to spend training them..

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quote:

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I ran coon with mine and very seldom had them kill one, thats what the gun is for..

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quote:

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very seldom had them kill one

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quote:

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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I ran coon with mine and very seldom had them kill one, thats what the gun is for..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That`s awesome Tim, you should explain in detail how you did it.

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quote:

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English hounds are great dogs, if you like a cold nose. Too cold to make plus points against today's Walkers in most cases.

---

Here is another example of a false statement.
Dose'nt matter what breed you use you will still get mixed results from a litter of pups from any breed.One of my dogs had a cold nose and the other hot nose could follow most any track (scent trail) Thats why I used two dogs for hunting..Dogs can do both trails if breed correctly.
Don't remember the name of the magizine off hand, might of been called Full Cry or something like that.. I used to get them from the guy I got my dogs from and would look at the contest results held. Reason for that is the Red-ticks that where either winning or placeing in the top 10 where of the same blood as mine. (parents or litter mates)
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on January 18, 2011, 06:06 AM:
 
my lil' cur dog is a treeing fool!
Only had my cell phone along when he treed a coon in the park by my house a couple weeks back:

Ready for tree launch?


Engage thrusters!!!


He's got a bit of a nose & took this day old track right to a den tree, much to my surprise!


Prolly 'cause he likes the taste of coon so much...


Coyote too!


I guess when they got it, they got it?

[ January 18, 2011, 06:10 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 

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Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on January 18, 2011, 06:34 AM:
 
Fred
Is that pokey he sure got big quick!
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on January 18, 2011, 06:56 AM:
 
Yep Paul, he's 7 months old now!


I'm having more fun with him than I would with a barrel o' monkeys!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 18, 2011, 09:06 AM:
 
Okay, what's up? I'm suspicious. Are you guys Facebook cowboys, or have the two of you been actual hunting together, maybe even romping with a certain Okie? How else would you know how much pokie has grown? Sounds like there is a "relationship" brewing. That image on the bed clad in a black G string haunts me, night and day! And, no, not for THAT reason, you Silly Goose!

Good hunting. LB

edit: PS why the docked tail? Is there a tax on dogs in New Yawk?

[ January 18, 2011, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on January 18, 2011, 10:51 AM:
 
Leonard,
I'll be joining Facebook right after you become a card carrying Democrat and wear this shirt at the next Ronde:


Until that time, the extent of my 'social networking' will remain within the context of internet hunting/shooting forums...

You need to get a pup from KJ. They ain't got no tails, neither! And I'm sure he'd make ya a fair deal on one...
Just stop over to the OPHA next weekend and pick him up!

[ January 18, 2011, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 18, 2011, 11:11 AM:
 
Okay, understood. I don't want just any dog, especially if it has a docked tail. I do not mind removing the dew claws, but I usually like a tail on my dogs. Ooh, how 'bout a Portuguese water dog to match my Obami tee shirt?

Good hunting. LB

PS Man! this web hosting is getting expensive! I just renewed for five more years. Domain used to be about $7 and web site USED to be $79. Not any more. I have been with GoDaddy for 7 years now, the previous company, seemed like HM was down two or three times per year and nobody would answer the phone on weekends. Used to set my teeth on edge. GoDaddy is a lot better, in that regard, BUT they did have me out of commission for a couple days, last year. That one really pissed me off.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 18, 2011, 11:34 AM:
 
Good to hear that this place is going to be around for a while yet.

Speaking of being around; What's the chance that one of the unused forums could be a 'Whatever happened to ........??'

As in; Whatever happened to Behle?? or Whatever happened to Tripp?? or Andy??
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 18, 2011, 11:47 AM:
 
Good idea, and I suppose you want to moderate? Sounds like a gossip column, to me?

PS The pay would insult a man of your looks and talent. Also, it's just a title, you get no access to buttons and levers.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 18, 2011, 12:34 PM:
 
Koko,

Behle is an unknown.

Tripp has even abandoned his own board, word is his career has eaten his life. I did get a text from him, over the Xmas break, so he's alive.

Andy was here, harrassing TA, just the other night. Thanks Andy!

Man, that Okie site is the back pattin'-ist buncha man huggers I ever saw!
More one word atta boy posts than F&F and PM combined.

Krusty
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 18, 2011, 12:57 PM:
 
I'm impressed! Are you applying for the same job? A few people are aware of Behle's situation and I suspect it will remain a very few.

Good hunting. LB

There I go, gossiping like a little girl, or a PM member. The Okie board is like that, too? Last time I looked over there, Kelly was one of the top posters. Something to be proud of, for sure! lol
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 18, 2011, 01:24 PM:
 
El Bee;
No time to be a moderator, although I'm flattered to be considered worthy.

Doing a lot of working out & jogging. Getting ready for an interview with Chipendale's.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 18, 2011, 01:51 PM:
 
Chippendale's? How did the Santa gig work out?
 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on January 18, 2011, 01:56 PM:
 
Speaking of Kelly, when does he get his hazing for becoming a member of Foxpro's field staff? Or did I miss the party?
 

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Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on January 18, 2011, 02:53 PM:
 

quote:

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Man, that Okie site is the back pattin'-ist buncha man huggers I ever saw!
More one word atta boy posts than F&F and PM combined.

---

Come on over and join the party Jeff! Lots of great people there and they all try to get along. It's an Okie kind of thing!

Look at the list of members coming to the Elk City Hunt next weekend... not bad at all for a five year old board! You'd be welcome too Leonard!
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on January 18, 2011, 04:49 PM:
 



Knockemdown, Here is my little kemmer on a bobcat kitten that was crossing the driveway as I was leaving one day. I don't encourage the climbing, but it does show her desire.

Maintain
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 18, 2011, 05:12 PM:
 
I get a big kick out of seeing a dog make his way up a tree, and chew on a coyote too, nice pics guys. I love to see dogs that know their business.

Tim..... You`re a genius!!! Once again you`ve proven how blessed we are to have your infinite wisdom only one left click away. I`ll bet these guys are teaching that "don`t touch" thing as we speak, I know I`m gonna teach that to both of my dogs first thing in the morning. And that bit concerning Lances false statement about the English hounds..WOW...pure genius!! I`ll bet he`s careful from now on not to share such foolishness in your presence.
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on January 18, 2011, 05:57 PM:
 
The Okie's are a good lot, got alot of friends there. I look forward to hanging out with them next weekend.
Will be good to see the Higgins and Les again.

Travis - I was hoping I might get a pass.lol

Yall stay after them
Kelly
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 18, 2011, 06:46 PM:
 

quote:

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I`ll bet these guys are teaching that "don`t touch" thing as we speak,

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I highly doubt it JD.. If they were they would'nt be haveing problems with dogs running trash or a dog tangleing with a porky or skunk..
You can do it the hard way or the easey way. I prefer the easey way...

quote:

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I know I`m gonna teach that to both of my dogs first thing in the morning.

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I don't think you have the slightest idea of how to, or were to even start..LOL

quote:

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And that bit concerning Lances false statement about the English hounds..WOW...pure genius!! I`ll bet he`s careful from now on not to share such foolishness in your presence.

---

Not haveing the facts is pretty much the norm for a writter, why change!!!!!!!

[ January 18, 2011, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 18, 2011, 07:44 PM:
 
Tim, thanks for sharing your amazing knowledge with us again, I feel terrible about not understanding your incredible training techniques all these years & all the dogs I`ve trained to hunt the wrong way. Who could`ve known that my bird dogs could be taught to "dont touch" and I just figured these coyote dogs were supposed to run down & kill deer & stuff....I never knew anyone could be so wise when it came to training animals. I`m sure these guys will agree with me in saying that YOU are a special kind of person, Tim.

I can only hope that you continue to dazzle us with all your original cutting edge techniques & advice for training & hunting &...well... everything!! Gosh, you`re really something, thats for sure!! I should probably change my sig line. huh? We`ll see.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 18, 2011, 08:09 PM:
 

quote:

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I feel terrible about not understanding your incredible training techniques all these years & all the dogs I`ve trained to hunt the wrong way

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Thanks for giveing me credit but I did'nt come up with the training techniques. I was taught by someone else and used what I learned to train my hounds and bird dogs.. Prety simple steps actually, even a caveman can do it..

Did'nt know you had bird dogs, but I guess I never asked.. How do you handle youre dogs when hunting birds??? Voice commands, whistle, hand signals, shock collar ?????

Here are a couple of my bird dogs; http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/Dogs/IMG_0122.jpg[/IMG]] http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/Dogs/IMG_0119.jpg[/IMG]] http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/Dogs/IMG_0221.jpg[/IMG]]
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 18, 2011, 08:36 PM:
 
I wasn`t giving you credit Tim, that was sarcasm!

Were you dropped on your head or something? I dont mean as a child I mean like today?

I`m going callin tomorrow, I think I`m gonna hold my dog above my head & rotate him 360 degrees so he can see all the coyotes coming to the call. Whadya think Tim? Should work huh?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 18, 2011, 08:59 PM:
 
Let us know how it works out..
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 19, 2011, 05:00 AM:
 
So Tim, to be clear, you are saying that how a coonhound is trained and handled in the field, and how your bird dogs were expected to manage themselves and what they do with their target prey are, or should be the same? More specifically, you're saying that they're both hunting breeds, they're both hunting, therefore, there's no difference? Bear in mind that my experience is that I spent most of a decade and a half hunting my hounds with some of the most accomplished competitive coon hunters in Kansas behind some of the most notable bloodlines at the time and that I suspect (just a WAG here) that KS has more coons than MN, thus more coonhunters who, by virtue of field time, are better familiar with what it takes to properly finish a hound.
 

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Posted by Patterson (Member # 3304) on January 19, 2011, 06:26 AM:
 

quote:

---

I`m going callin tomorrow, I think I`m gonna hold my dog above my head & rotate him 360 degrees so he can see all the coyotes coming to the call. Whadya think Tim? Should work huh?

---

Jason thanks for the laugh for my morning coffee and reading!!!

Lance,
Are you gonna be helping Brooks with St. George and Stark??
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 19, 2011, 10:57 AM:
 
Lance; Nope.

As for how many coon are taken in Kansas vrs. Mn. here are some numbers I got from Kansas wildlife research and from Mn. DNR..

Kansas fur harvest report;http://www.kdwp.state.ks.us/news/Other-Services/Research-Publications/Wildlife-Research-Surveys

Trapped 12,585

Hunted 15,064

Treeing success 17,405

Total 45,054 raccons harvested

Min. DNR harvest report;

Trapped; 75,000

Hunted; 100-150,000

Fur buyer sales 43,824 raccoons

Fur buyer sales: Coyotes 3,724
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 19, 2011, 11:41 AM:
 
At one time, I thought that I'd try duck hunting. Joined a highly recomended duck club & bought a good dog from a respected breeder. Hunted hard all day opening day & only got one duck. Came home exhausted and put that animal up for sale. Not sure what I was doing wrong, but maybe I wasn't throwing the dog high enough.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 19, 2011, 12:31 PM:
 
I'm surprised you got even one?

edit: Oakies are man patting one word whatchamacallits? They certainly appear somewhat macho, to a casual observer?

edit: Higgins should fit right in

[ January 19, 2011, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 19, 2011, 12:49 PM:
 
Dustin,

Yep, I'm there.

Tim,

Just goes to show. You had more opportunities to learn to do it right and you still... don't.

Let's look back at the period in question, not today.

1979-1980-ish.

Kansas total harvest, Raccoons: 207,578.
Coyotes: 93,648

Minnesota total harvests, Raccoons: 162,000
Coyotes: 8,000.

Source: Midwest Furbearer Management, Glen C. Sanderson

Two points to make here - the number of coons taken by houndsmen generally remain relatively stable whereas trapping figures tend to sway with the markets. This is because most houndsmen run dogs as a hobby, not to make money off the furs. It's about breeding, competing and selling their dogs.

Second point, one doesn't have to look far to find the numbers they need to cherry pick.

(Edited because the spellcheck didn't work the first time.)

[ January 19, 2011, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 19, 2011, 02:46 PM:
 
[/URL]

Tim, what's the limit on cock pheasants, in Minnesota? And, is that you in above pic? Where are those famous high top goulashes?

Also, are you running for Sheriff?

You might explore the coons per man hour invested angle? Coons per dog? Dogs per coon? Dogs per tree? Find something that would favor Minn.? For whatever it's worth?
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 19, 2011, 05:42 PM:
 
"Also, are you running for Sheriff?"

I get it, and that's not nice, Elbee.

He can cite the most recent numbers, but 79-80 numbers give a better picture of what the state's pop'n can really endure as that was the year everyone and their dog - literally - was out killing coons. Pretty much levels the playing field when EVERYBODY in the state is out shooting at them. Therefore, I'll go with my numbers.

And, BTW, MN has a helluva lot more trees than we do, I'm betting. Then again, I'm also betting that I can check back here in twenty minutes and Tim will have found some tidbit of internet information about the number of trees in both states and will have cut and pasted it here.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 19, 2011, 05:52 PM:
 
Lance not going to argue youre numbers. But the numbers I posted from Kansas are from last year, not 10-20 years ago. Youre state seperates the trapped, hunted, and hunted with dogs, Mn. does not go into that much detail unless you buy a copy of there report. Mn. also does not keep track of coon taken by out of state hunters..

Also the numbers for Mn. coyotes harvested 1979-1980-ish seems awfull high. We had more fox at that time period than coyotes which started to move in to southern half of the state in the early 80's to mid. 80's...

Leonard the limit is two roosters and three after Dec... The pheasants in the pic. were shot in S.D.. The guy holding the dog is my brother in-law..

quote:

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Also, are you running for Sheriff?

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No! Why you ask?????

You might explore the coons per man hour invested angle? Coons per dog? Dogs per coon? Dogs per tree? Find something that would favor Minn.? For whatever it's worth?

Does'nt really matter.. Lance quoted 207,578. coon for Kansas of which 50%-65% were trapped..

I looked at the Kansas harvest report again and see what Lance is doing, he just picked out two of the best seasons they had, where on avr. there total coon harvest avr. less than a 100,000...

[ January 19, 2011, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 19, 2011, 06:42 PM:
 
Tim, you listed 225,000 total yet only 43,824 were sold. What do ya'll do with coons?

Jeff, yes some okies are fine with plesantries and enjoy encouraging others, some of us don't.

ElBee, what's an Oakie?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 19, 2011, 06:55 PM:
 
Tom the number I listed for sales for the year was what was bought by 17 fur buyers that reported there sales to the state. There are other buyers in the state and don't know why they did'nt have to report their sales. Also alot of the coon is sold by the hunter out of state such as fur auctions and then there are also out of state hunters that take there fur back home... To get a more exact number I would have to get a fur harvest report from the DNR and I'm not going to do that....
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 19, 2011, 06:59 PM:
 
It just seems ike the numbers they released were mere guesses.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 19, 2011, 07:06 PM:
 
Tom, the spell checker corrected what I wrote, I figured either you or Dan would call me on it, but I liked it, so it stayed. I will be more careful, in the future. But, even phonetically, it seems right-er, to me. BTW, LOVED THE MOVIE!

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Brad Norman (Member # 234) on January 19, 2011, 07:16 PM:
 
What is this Okie site you speak of and why am I not a member? Did I miss something?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 19, 2011, 07:18 PM:
 
Yes and no Tom.. Depends on where you look..

( To get a more exact number I would have to get a fur harvest report from the DNR and I'm not going to do that.)

Like I said Lance just happen to pick two of the best seasons for harvest totals.. I guess I could of done the same..If its important maybe I could call them and get a accurat number..

[ January 19, 2011, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 19, 2011, 07:47 PM:
 
When did I go back to being called "Jeff"...

Tom,

It goes way beyond pleasantries, to the point it seems some members, in effort to run up that ever important post count, will post anything (including nothing more than a smilie).

Brad,

Here's the Okie site.

Lance,

You give Tim way too much credit, saying that he gets his information off the internet (as opposed to pulling numbers out of his ass).

You don't seriously believe anything he says is credible, do you?

Krusty
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 19, 2011, 07:50 PM:
 
http://www.okpredatorhunters.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm

Here it is Brad, our annual hunt is in Elk City next weekend. Rich and Tyler Higgins are the speakers on Friday night and Les Johnson is on Saturday night.

Sorry, I'd have let you know "sooner" but Leonard frowns on recruitment you know.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 19, 2011, 08:05 PM:
 
Only on even numbered days. Unless your name ends with a vowel.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 19, 2011, 08:25 PM:
 
"When did I go back to being called "Jeff"... "

When I wrote you a check, krusty just hasn't fit you since for some reason. But as you wish.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 19, 2011, 08:32 PM:
 
Tim,

Actually, your remarks as to numbers harvested were in response, by my best guess, to where I said,

"I suspect (just a WAG here) that KS has more coons than MN,..."

The numbers I cite are the only numbers included in the chart I have in front of me because yes, that was one of the biggest seasons in KS furharvesting history, as it was for most states because of the unmatched fur boom going on at the time. My point, in citing those numbers, was that they represent what is likely the maximum amount of harvest pressure your state and mine, either one, has ever endured, thus giving a more accurate picture of what the state's populations were like at the time. Presently, in Kansas at least, we lose the vast majority of excess in the coon pop'n to distemper since the fur market and the economy keep most people who have trapped on the sidelines due to no interest or no money. Because of this, the harvest data this year, or for that matter, any of the past ten, does not accurately represent the number of coons in Kansas, nor would it do so in Minnesota. 79-80 saw huge numbers representing a higher percentage of the resource than any other year on record.

Now, as to how these numbers do, or do not, illustrate houndsman activity.

Trappers trap for fur and the money they can make off of it. When the fur market tanks, so does the activity levels of trappers.

Houndsmen run dogs for harvesting fur, and some actually sell the pelts to offset the cost of the dogs. But, to a houndsman, a live coon is worth much more than a dead one because their interests also lie in breeding their dogs, improving their blood lines, training and selling the dogs. That's where they make their money, if they're in it for the money at all, and the prevailing price being offered for coon pelts has little to do with the amount of dogmen that there are.

The point I made earlier was that we have more coons, and we likely have more coon hunters. More coon hunters means more dogs and since the vast majority of coon hunting today centers around Nite Hunts, you quickly notice that most hounds in competetion are Walkers and other warm-nose breeds whose noses can't pick up a track that's very old, otherwise, they'd spend the entire 2-hour time allotment for the hunt chasing one coon. They don't want that. Other than myself and the guy I bought my English dogs from, there weren't any other redtick hunters around here that I knew of. The reason for that, I was told, was because their noses are too cold to serve them well in a hunting competition when against walkers - a breed that was selectively bred out of the English breed, along with blueticks, for certain traits, including a manageable nose.

Personally, I don't consider the English nose a liability. My dogs did incredible things for which I was very proud and I enjoyed watching them put the kabosh on those uppity walkers by sticking to and working out a track long before the Walker dogs even knew it was there. 9 times out of ten, my dog could get first strike before jumping from the tailgate just by airing the scent. Those walker guys absolutely hated him for that. Cody was never competed because he wasn't a dedicated treeing dog. He'd tree, and leave as soon as he could to find another track because that was what he enjoyed doing. Bear, his half brother, went back to the breeder when I had to stop hunting. Three yars later, I received new paperwork from UKC showing that he'd attained his Dual Grand Champion Grand Nite Champion and was standing at stud somewhere in the Ozarks with the breeder's brother. Cody was barely fifty pounds, soaking wet. Bear, in comarison, was twice as tall at the shoulders and weighed just over 95 pounds. Two half brothers that looked nothing alike. LOL
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 19, 2011, 08:34 PM:
 
After Idol, k?
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 19, 2011, 08:59 PM:
 
Lance, don`t confuse him with facts & reason.

BTW...I just read your sig line...That`s hilarious! The first thing I thought about was how cold Tim must be up there in Minnie-sota.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 19, 2011, 09:54 PM:
 
Not cold at all, unless youre a puss..

So how did the calling go? Did you get a couple?? You did'nt get dog shit on youre hat did ya..
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on January 20, 2011, 06:18 AM:
 
Cross J: COOL shots of a good lookin' dog! Curious, does your cur still have it's dew claws?
I've read where they help in the tree climbing dept...
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 20, 2011, 04:31 PM:
 
Im not going to get into this very deep. Been there done that too many times on this subject.

I love dogs. I got four that hunt coons and coyotes. Calling, not running. I cannot stand the coyote runnin hound guys. Geordie, probably the only thing we disagree on, and you probably do it different, knowing you and your morals, than the dipshits around here. I have no repsect for these fuckheads. Its an excuse for roadhunting, kind of like Tims crew. They just use humans instead of dogs to run out coyotes to guys shootin from the road. Only difference is the dogs are no doubt smarter cause they arent hunting with Tim.

I have had more coyote stands, traplines, deer stands and other types of hunting, fucked up by these toothless retarded fuckheads than anything else. And they hide behind the skirt of the law that says your dogs can run anywhere are long as you dump them on land you have permission to hunt. Most have permission in someones yard, dump there and its a fuckin free for all from there on out. Ive posted this so many times. I got pissed bad one time and told the game warden about it, after they fucked up one of my best calling areas. I showed him where to watch and told him when to show up. He wrote a bunch of tickets for shooting from the road, trespass, got a couple of felony arrests for drinking while in posession of a firearm and discharging a firearm while drinking, most road hunters are fuckin drunks. Confiscated some guns and I think even one truck.

If it is done properly and your not wonton stepping on everyone in the countries toes, good on ya. But tracts are small around here. A 1000 acre farm is big, all in one tract anyway, and it doesnt take long for a chase to go across that much land. So, its literally impossible to not have your dogs go where they are not wanted and quite possibly fuck up someones hunt that did have permission.

Anyway, Brett, you know Im not talking about your methods. Geordie, Im giving you the benifit of the doubt, just because of my prior experiences talking with you. You do have some sense. The guys around here? Fuck the dipshits. I will continue to wage war on them.

Oh, and coon hunters? Not all are bad, Im sure. But I have lost a shitload of coons to the bastards stealing my coons and most take my traps too. Sound like an ethical person? Hell, I wouldnt even mind them letting their dogs chew on them, I do. Shoot the fucking thing when your done so it doesnt suffer. But I bought the trap, went to the work of setting it out and you taking it and my trap just because your piece of shit dog couldnt find anything else that night? Fuck you too. I helped get a couple of these slobs busted too. One I even killed his fuckin dog for him, after the 5th night in a row of him hunting my lines and costing me a few hundred in traps alone, not counting fur.

Now, having said all this, we are talking about a small minority. Most hunters are ethical. But there are enough of these fuckheads with dogs to piss me off, at least around here.

4949, I really enjoy your posts and think your a credit. But if you want to train a hunting dog, for coon and coyote at least, if you dont let them get their teeth sunk into a few, your not gonna have much of a dog.

And TA, that was pretty funny you thought Jason was really praising you. Just shows that you truely are a dumbass.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 20, 2011, 05:47 PM:
 

quote:

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You don't seriously believe anything he says is credible, do you?

Krusty

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quote:

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But if you want to train a hunting dog, for coon and coyote at least, if you dont let them get their teeth sunk into a few, your not gonna have much of a dog.

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No problem Andy I respect your opinion.

And thanks for the plug.

Edit: And as much as I hate to admit it, I respect the opinions of tom and Crossj too.

[ January 20, 2011, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on January 21, 2011, 07:54 AM:
 

quote:

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due to the fact that the are basically soft tissue with no ligements or tendons giving them the ability to be rigid.

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Thanks, that's why I asked, since reading that somewhere didn't make much sense to me?

My lil' guy seems to get along just fine without them. The tail, too...
 

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Posted by Cowboyvon (Member # 854) on January 26, 2011, 06:56 PM:
 
Wow what a thread.. and all this coming from the chest thumping predator callers..

I always thought that predator calling was about the same as what team penning is to all of us that compete in the horse world.... its something that people can do that don't have the skill to do anything else Oh but wait you guys are the elite...sorry

Just kidding really

I run coyotes with sight hounds and I also hunt bears and lions with scent hounds to me its the greatest sport around but I don't expect everyone else to like it. I guess its all in how you go about it but most of the people who are against it have never done it. I've called in and shot my share of coyotes.. but it just doesn't do anything for me.. and then the way you guys get into calibers,loads velocity and groups and all that shit...can't stand it..

Me and Andy and JD have been down this road before and came to an understanding.. and I'm glad to see Andy still has a way with words

I can sure see where small acreages and a lot of private property is not real conducive to hound hunting, thats why I'm glad I'm where I'm at I have lots of room to do what I like...

Treed Bear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk8WXvs4Yyg

Cold trailing a lion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-XCBVI87pc
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 29, 2011, 10:27 AM:
 
I missed your post Bret, yea we been down this road a time or two Horses & hounds in NM, I`m a jealous man. Good to hear from you again.

btw...nice video clips.
 

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