This is topic Flipper lights. in forum Night forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.


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Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on January 08, 2005, 09:52 AM:
 
Does anyone make flipper lights anymore?
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 08, 2005, 01:15 PM:
 
I think they still sell them at Sea World.
 

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Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on January 08, 2005, 07:29 PM:
 
Krusty old buddy, how many animals have you taken in a night of predator hunting using lights? I've been using lights for predator hunting more years then most folks are alive and I'm not alone. I know what works and what don't, trust me on that one. When I first started predator hunting it was at night, it took me a few trys to call something in and I was using white lights at the time. Years later I found out there was a better way and it ain't a white light lol, Good Hunting.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 10, 2005, 07:27 PM:
 
Krusty, in this discussion, you really don't have a clue. For that matter, neither does Watson since neither of you (I'm betting) have ever used one, or handled one.

If you knew anything about night hunting, you would know that Danny wouldn't use a noisy mechanism. Short answer, your imagination is running wild. Flipper only sounds like a noisy word.

As to the value of white light, again, asking the question shows that you don't have the foggiest idea. BUT, it isn't your fault. It's a difficult concept to grasp, from the written word.

Actually, I don't use a flipper, myself. I much prefer a superposed. Watson probably thinks they are noisy also?

But, a flipper is a damn good light. Gino used to make them to order, but he got tired of it, sort of like Higgins with his Howlers, and Krusty with his calls.

Good hunting. LB

edit:

quote:

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I have read where guys say switching just leaves you with a running shot, especially if the "flip" is noisy.

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I'd sure like to meet the dipshit that made the above "observation"!

[ January 11, 2005, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 11, 2005, 07:57 AM:
 
Krusty, let's just leave it as a subject you do not grasp sufficently to assemble unrelated facts and form erroneous conclusions. Not a put-down, but, really, I have little patience to go into a detailed response.

Even your questions contain inaccuracies. Example: a red light is a hunting light, you cannot always identify an animal from a distance unless you light him up with a "burn light" for the shot. Until then, it's just a set of eyes.

If a guy chooses to use a red light, and has identified the animal, and shoots under the red, that's fine with me. Even if he has control of the intensity. However, there is no substitute for the clarity of the white light if the animal is in cover and some distance away. He only sees it for a very few seconds....

Assuming that he deserves an opinion, in contrast to being entitled to one......

Whoever you are quoting would probably be a little annoyed, if you have taken him out of context.

Don't bother to try and fathom this stuff. Besides not understanding the nuggets of information dropped, from time to time, I have no intrest in explaining our methods. In other words; Your enlightenment isn't important to me, dude.
 

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Posted by Duncan Menads (Member # 381) on January 11, 2005, 09:47 AM:
 
It's like involuntary grass. Or hair in your ear.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 11, 2005, 10:51 AM:
 
Goodness gracious! You amuse me, Krusty. Ever so slightly, sometimes.

The actual purpose (utility) of a night hunting spotlight is varied. You can survive, at a elementary level, (many do) with a light that cannot be changed from bright to dim. You can, and we have, changed the light by various methods, as well as changing the intensity and the shade. (color)

The ultimate theory behind a flipper light is WEIGHT SAVING. BECAUSE. Two separate light bulbs weigh twice as much, and get very heavy, when operated all night long.

To continue....
The colored lens installed on a pivot inside the light shroud of a flipper spotlight is far less heavy than assembling two bulbs inside two cowlings and superposing them, and calibrating them to the exact same aiming point of the beam. (think of a choke on a carborator)

I (personally) do use two separate lights joined together like the barrels of a shotgun, with all attendant wiring and switching controls. This is a red fog light, and a white pencil beam spot. Both are extremely useful.

With a flipper, you can hunt with the dark colored lens acting exactly like the filter on a camera lens. Instead of unscrewing it, as with a camera, you just pull the trigger cable mechanism, and the shaft (silently) rotates 90º. The effect is that it all but disapears, allowing the high intensity white light to illuminate the animal, which is very important, for accurate shot placement.

This is done completely silently, and there is no warm up period (for the bulb filiment) if you were switching between two bulbs and don't know how to solve that particular problem.

Also, please. Do not attempt to analyze these statements, because they are as true as Holy Writ. If you don't understand this information, please just read it again before attempting to tell me about stuff that I know, and you and Watson don't know.

There is no information about these things on the Internet, either. (a search is pretty useless) There might be a total of 100 flipper lights in the known universe, and most of them are in California. You folks are lucky that you even know the flipper light exists, thanks to a few casual comments by clever and inventive CSVCA members.

Ultimately, we actually do provide a lot of free information, if you would know how to use it. "WE" being the very few third generation night hunters.

Is it fair to ask a group of Tibetan Yak Herders about the finer points of rock climbing? What they think of your opinion, is similiar to, your asking the gentlemen on other boards about the utility of devices like flipper lights. They are not entitled to an opinion if they have no idea about the purpose and have never seen one.

Danny, why did you ever ask the question? You knew there was not an answer out "there" worth a bucket of warm spit!

Good hunting. LB

[ January 11, 2005, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 11, 2005, 04:23 PM:
 
Danny,

Didn't nite lite used to sell them? I thought I had one of their catalogs here, but I can't find it.

I used one years ago that my hunting partner had. Then he bought a new light with two heads, and we quit taking the flipper head out.

I haven't seen one since.

It worked just like some of those flip open scope caps they sell now. at the base of the cover was a little button. When pushed, the red filter flipped 180 degrees up and out of the way.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 11, 2005, 04:55 PM:
 
Tim, I have seen those lights. Yeah, you released a catch and it was spring loaded and the red lens cover "flipped" up, out of the way. As I recall(?) it required both hands to release it?

I can see the confusion, if that is what is the mental image, and it does cause a wiggle and a possible noise problem if it bumps a stop.

The flipper lights that Danny is talking about are all custom made, mostly by one person. They work silently and without clicking or wiggling.

We should drop the subject because they are not available at any price. If somebody can see the value, I have already provided enough information where it can be made from scratch, or by modifying an existing light, since most of the modification involves work to the barrel, since the tilt filter needs clearance from the bulb. The plastic will get hot, scorch and blister, if mounted too close.

K,
That's about all I can say. These are all hand made, fer cripes sakes!

If you don't think you friggin need one, don't waste the time building it, much less telling other people that it doesn't work and causes coyotes to run away.
<sigh>
 

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Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on January 11, 2005, 08:24 PM:
 
Leonard I agree, like you said drop the subject. Between you and me we probably have 80 years of night hunting experience. That don't mean sh-t in todays world of Hi-tech coyote hunters. I have alot to say but I ain't gonna lol

[ January 11, 2005, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: onecoyote ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 11, 2005, 08:43 PM:
 
K, I read that thread. I didn't see where Danny mentioned a guy name of Gino, that was the only person who actually would make a flipper light, for sale.

Grandpa Fudge, as I remember, was PRE-flipper light, or maybe had seen a crude prototype? Some guys are handier than others. I really do not see what he is talking about, the lights that I have handled worked flawlessly?

People who know would probably correct me, so I won't bother claiming to be Jim Struble's best friend. However, I knew him well. I've been to his house, and he was a guest in mine; suffered through many Board meetings with Jim, may he rest in peace. Too bad, he was not a very old man, but I could see that he did not look well for several years, although he never complained.

I didn't see any photos on that link, but I know what they do, and how they work. It amuses me, that the Texas boys don't quite get it.

Good hunting. LB

edit: Krusty, your light pics are of something that properly trained California hunters would not consider using, for sure. We never use a light that has an internal battery. That is not a decent spotlight for hunting predators, except maybe in Texas? (just kidding)

[ January 11, 2005, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on January 12, 2005, 06:54 AM:
 
Nope, it's not 1972 lol. I met Jim Struble back in the 70s when he joined the Long Beach chapter. He had belonged to the San Fernando chapter for a couple of years before that. I could tell you alot of things about Jim that I'll pass on, I don't think anybody in the assocation knew him longer then I did. The guy named Dino was a member of the So Cal Chapter that is now the ( Southern California Varmint Callers Asso. )and I'm a life member of that club along with a couple others. Dino made the best lights you could buy at the time, he also made some great looking varmint rifles. Krusty, if you think we are living back in the 70s, you're wrong, we just have some great memories is all and we voice them from time to time. I still call with hand calls and e-callers, I've called up several animals this year and even competed on a hunt, came in 4th place out of 14 teams, not bad for an old guy lol. It's in our blood.....You'll have to go a long way to find a couple guys like Leonard and I. We started this sport a long time ago, seen hundreds of guys come and go. But yet through it all, we are still here....I call that true dedication.
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 13, 2005, 04:13 PM:
 
I'll be damned, you can make rope out of that stuff?
 

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Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on January 13, 2005, 04:49 PM:
 
Quote, “You and Leonard started this sport???”
You’re taking the statement “We started this sport a long time ago” out of context.
He wasn’t saying they originated the sport, he’s saying they began participating in the sport a long time ago. Like almost a half century ago. Along with me. It seems like if there’s any possibility of deriving a negative interpretation from a statement, you have the knack to do it, LOL. Maybe your real calling is as a newscaster for CBS?
 

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Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on January 13, 2005, 05:08 PM:
 
For your information, flipper lights were not around in the 70s, were you? lol. They came along in the 80s and were made even better in the 90s and are being used today. Most folks just don't have a clue to what's going on in the real world of night hunting, I don't think modern technology can help that.....and what did I say that I personally did first when it comes to predator hunting? Nothing that I can think of. Anytime I say something about predator hunting on line....I always try to tell the truth the best of my knowledge....I give my opinion as does everyone else....I try to help people....I tell stories of years past because people have told me they enjoy it.....I also joke around alot too..........BUT, I never said I personally did anything first that I can remember.
 

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Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on January 13, 2005, 07:29 PM:
 
An interesting topic that garners my attention every time.

The first thing I learned long ago- and it was not exclusive to hunting anything - was that if you do not know everything, keep your mouth shut long enough to learn something...

I read about 1/10th of this post, and....

So... Does anyone make a flipper that can be bought today?

Never had one, never hunted with one, never bought one, though I'd give it a try...
 

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Posted by RayG (Member # 9) on January 13, 2005, 08:03 PM:
 
Can't resist.
Looks like Danny and Leonard have stepped out (wisely LOL).

JoeF. NO, there are no commercial lights available like we Califonians use. To put one together takes a bit of imagination, mechanical aptitude and a good source of materials to build the tube and trigger assembly. I put a couple together last week before a hunt and each one was a half day probject. BTW, The referenced "Shortblock" used both of the on our weekend hunt.

Seeing as I don't know how to properly insert photos in my reply, I sent a shot of a couple lights to Leonard. Maybe he can edit this and drop it in here somewhere.

RayG
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 13, 2005, 08:15 PM:
 
Krusty,

Here's my opinion, be careful about calling my friend a liar.

Danny may have more shit than a Chistmas goose, but he's no damned liar.

Si comprenda?
 

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Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on January 13, 2005, 08:58 PM:
 
Why all this crap over a simple question?

[ January 13, 2005, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: onecoyote ]
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on January 14, 2005, 05:38 AM:
 
http://www.aboutgbs.com/spotlight.htm

http://www.californiavarmintcallers.com/spotlight.htm

I'm sure people would laugh at it, but I think a guy could get it done with a doll house door hinge and a couple of eye hooks along with some wire fishing leader.

[ January 14, 2005, 05:45 AM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
 

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Posted by Duncan Menads (Member # 381) on January 14, 2005, 07:29 AM:
 
Krusty:

Keep up the good work!
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on January 14, 2005, 08:55 AM:
 
Danny, Duncan Menads just answered your last question.
 

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Posted by WolverineAtWork (Member # 23) on January 14, 2005, 10:05 AM:
 
[quote]Quote by onecoyote:
Why all this crap over a simple question?

Denny Crane!
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 14, 2005, 11:47 AM:
 


Krusty

[ February 07, 2005, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by WolverineAtWork (Member # 23) on January 14, 2005, 12:05 PM:
 
Anyone familiar with the last few seasons of The Practice or the current Boston Legal episodes may catch the comparison.
 

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Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on January 14, 2005, 08:31 PM:
 
RayG, thanks for the reply... I had an idea of the answer before I asked.

Sorry to all, I've shot a couple of foxes lately and was feeling a bit cocky!It's been a while...
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 15, 2005, 01:45 PM:
 
Krusty, I think you are stiring shit. Nobody is required to keep you informed, and then have to justify whatever their personal philosophy might be? I know for a fact that the information to make a decent light is available, in words and pictures. You just want to argue.

In the first place, if you can't fathom the value of a flipper light, why not just back out of the discussion?

That's all the time I have to jump in here, but you are completely full of it to suggest that "we" old farts aren't trying to help, and provide accurate information for the clueless. We are, and we do.

Aloha, LB
 

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Posted by Duncan Menads (Member # 381) on January 17, 2005, 04:20 AM:
 
Krusty, next time you need a book on brain surgery, don't go down to the auto parts store. Know what I mean?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 19, 2005, 10:47 AM:
 
Krusty, I just want you to know that regardless of where you get your advice, regardless of the subject at hand, you seem to want to rag on the messenger. I can tell you, for certain, that it pisses guys off when you whine about how hard it is, or argue about some small detail that you don't understand? In this case, you (once again) don't understand.

Does it make sense that you have people, out in the hinterlands, using a red light, and clueless about any other method? Some of us have moved beyond a simple red light, decades ago. Now, why would somebody reinvent a step backwards, that isn't needed? The answer is that it is progress.

If you, or your favorite night hunter doesn't understand the need, as has been said; it isn't brain surgery. Just step back and ask yourself if there might possibly be something you and the rest, have missed?

We have been building custom lights out here for many years. There must be some reason, don't you think? Oh yeah, YOU can't fathom the reason, which is understandable. Where you show stupidity is in arguing about something you don't know anything about. It should be enough to tell you that something is better. You can't possibly sit there and brainstorm a better solution without knowing what it does and what the purpose may be.

In fact, most of the little modifications to hunting lights are done to solve a very specific problem. You don't know about any of those problems, but you fearlessly pass judgement based on zero experience. Are you getting a feeling for how silly some of your statements are?

Believe me, those that know what they are talking about, and in this discussion, there are exactly three of us, have attempted to explain reasons, whys and wherefores, and the response we get is EVALUATION! What you should do is shut up and read every word, then use whatever you have; manage to kill a few animals, and THEN consider alternatives. This is how things evolve.

I guarantee you, people that start out night hunting always come back from a hunt with more questions, than answers. Many experienced hunters actually will NOT readily share the technical information. Here, we do. Be grateful. Quit with the judgements and evaluations until you have some knowledge.

If you talk to neanderthals that are using stone spear points, (or basic red lights), you get the same thing:
"They are the best, you don't need flipper spear points!"

Again, you choose to believe, whoever you want to believe. Pick one of those simple red lights. I advise you to do that, instead of your OWN (inferior) solution. Your pictures demonstrate better than anything else, that you don't know anything about the subject.

Now, think about it before you mouth off again. You folks just are not ready for this stuff.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Barndog (Member # 255) on January 19, 2005, 02:08 PM:
 
Krusty, Re-read all the stuff on the night hunting thread from the start and then develope your own style that works for you. This stuff isn't rocket science, of coarse rocket science is just blasting a known mass into a vacuum. Use what works.
The last coyote I saw in the spot light didn't have time to beam him with the white light, he was trying to sniff the bumber. How they can sneak in like that sometimes, without ever looking at the light is impressive, exciting too. Lots to learn still.
 

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Posted by Doggitter (Member # 489) on January 19, 2005, 05:35 PM:
 
Would any of you fill in a guy completely un-experienced with night hunting on what the make-up of a flipper light is. Sounds like the light flips around or a dual colored globe turns around the light? Loren
 

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Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on January 19, 2005, 05:47 PM:
 
Krusty, how many years have you been trying to call in a coyote? Two? This might be the problem: "I am actually very jovial, and am good company in the field". Could it be you just can't sit still and shut-up long enough on stand? Coyote calling isn't meant to be a social occasion. A ratchet-jaw on any hunt is a jinx.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 19, 2005, 05:51 PM:
 
Not at all, Loren. The red disc (plastic filter) is positioned inside the barrel, or shroud, mounted on a flat sided shaft, and connected to a cable that causes the red fliter to pivot sideways. This effectively changes the color of the light from red to white and is most useful for actually making the shot, illuminating your target and allowing precise shot placement. As I said before, think of the action as like a choke on a carburator, linkage and all.

PS you can't go out and buy one. (thank God!) Krusty would prob..........
never mind!

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on January 19, 2005, 05:57 PM:
 
Doggitter, have you ever seen those old style kitchen flour sifters? Looks like a big aluminum cup with a screen on the bottom, and a squeeze handle? When you squeeze the handle, it rotates a metal ring on the inside that scrapes against the screen. Well, in concept, the mechanics of a flipper works like that. And to quote Danny, "...and I ain't sayin' any more than that".
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 19, 2005, 07:09 PM:
 
By the way. In that last pic posted by Krusty, it shows two different lights. One looks like a standard flipper light and the other appears to be a Nightforce? with no other modifications.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by RayG (Member # 9) on January 19, 2005, 07:59 PM:
 
Leonard, Both lights are night force, one with a tube and lens, other is right out of the box with tube on the workbench waiting its turn. I'll get to it someday soon, or maybe the night before I need it.
 

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Posted by Doggitter (Member # 489) on January 20, 2005, 06:12 PM:
 
Oh, that was a real DUH! Thanks.
 

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Posted by Skinner 2 (Member # 419) on January 25, 2005, 07:57 PM:
 
Simple solution to all the bickering!

Someone introduce Krusty to the free porn sites!

Skinner 2
 

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Posted by Jay Nistetter (Member # 140) on January 28, 2005, 08:41 AM:
 
Krusty...
How old were you when your parents ran away from home?
 

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Posted by Hodgen (Member # 180) on February 03, 2005, 02:04 PM:
 
Hey Ray,

Is that the one that burned out at that critical moment?

Was one heck of a time for a light to fail...giggle.

For the guys who never used a flipper light. You just don't know what you're missing if you night hunt a lot. And for those "positive identification" guys, I can't tell you how many times I been fooled at night. The flipper tells all!!!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 03, 2005, 05:57 PM:
 

quote:

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For the guys who never used a flipper light. You just don't know what you're missing if you night hunt a lot. And for those "positive identification" guys, I can't tell you how many times I been fooled at night. The flipper tells all!!!

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See there. An unsolicited testimonial, from a guy in Penns....(back east). I keep thinking of the comments made on some other board about how you don't need nothing but a red light and flippers are too noisey, etc. etc. What a bunch of malarky, from those that obviously don't know what in the hell they are talking about. Makes ya lol.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by CougerBait (Member # 149) on February 04, 2005, 06:12 AM:
 
I guess I'm one of the idiots that don't see the value in a flipper light. Compared to allot of guy's on this sight I am a new born when it comes to night hunting. I don't keep track of how many animals that I have killed or any thing like that. But I have been night hunting hard for the last 3 years. In the beginning I had a hard time identifying animals. But it is all second nature any more. Last weekend we were on the east side and had mo problem identifying a coyote at 500 yards with a light force 170.

You can flame me, give me all kinds of crap. I guess I'm just lost on this subject.

 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 04, 2005, 09:04 AM:
 
It don't work that way, cougar~ It's because of a closed minded attitude that the topic keeps coming back to the same point.

Suppose you never saw an automobile, or a freeway, and you kept making statements like:

"I don't know what all the fuss is about, my horse and buggy work fine."

Then you say that you have been night hunting for three years and you are never fooled. Well, you may be, one day.

When somebody that has been doing this stuff for three decades, rather than three seasons, tells you that there is a better way, and you dispute it without benefit of the experience....you aren't an idiot, there is another word that fits, and you might try it on.

So, this shouldn't be considered a flame for making foolish comments. Perhaps you don't know as much about hunting at night as you think you do?

In any case, it isn't worth getting angry, we can still be friends. I don't expect everybody to agree with all things I say. Far from it.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Duncan Menads (Member # 381) on February 04, 2005, 09:39 AM:
 
Leonard, that's a great explanation, that closed-minded arguing keeps bringing this subject back.

I'm not sure which side is worse, though.

You see, CB, according the guys that use them, a flipper light is better, NO DOUBT.

Leonard's example of horse and buggy is good, but I'll counter with one:
Let's say you need glasses, and when you finally get some, you can see so much better. It may be natural for you to assume that EVERYONE could be seeing better if they'd just go get themselves some glasses! Afterall, it worked for you, so it must therefore work for everyone else. When of course that would not be true.

But anyway, hey, man, you got... what, 3 decades times at least 3 telling you to get a flipper light, so....
(I wonder how many people in this world, if you asked them, would tell you you should be wrapping your head in a turban....)
 

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Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on February 04, 2005, 10:00 AM:
 

quote:

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(I wonder how many people in this world, if you asked them, would tell you you should be wrapping your head in a turban....)

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or buy a Foxpro! LOL
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 04, 2005, 10:05 AM:
 
Well, I'm glad that somebody understands my position. It matters not, if those people use superior gear, I'll still sleep well. I, (and Ray and Danny) have nothing to gain. Real simple, this is a better way. You choose to dispute the words of wisdom, that's your preogative. The unfortunate thing is to knock the advice without, (at least) trying it. Again, we enlightened one's have nothing to gain. This is a gift we are offering, and you certainly don't have to accept it. The attitude here, that causes me to shake my head; ye, who will not listen.

Damn it, Danny. You write two lines, and then bail on me.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Hodgen (Member # 180) on February 04, 2005, 11:43 AM:
 
I been night hunting for more than just a couple years, just not at the distances you western boys shoot. But the first animal I shot while using a "flipper light" sold me on the concept.

We had an animal come walking in at about 150-175 yards and sit down. It moved like a bobcat and even looked like a bobcat through my Leupold scope under the red light. Infact, I probably would of bet money that it was a bobcat.

Then Ray "burned" him and guess what. It was a friggin small coyote!! It was a dead small coyote a few seconds later. Either way it wouldn't have mattered because I had bobcat tags.

But reverse that scenario on the Nevada side of the border, and it would have been a big "WHOOPS!!". And if a coyote can act like a cat, I am sure a cat can act like a coyote in the dark.
 

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Posted by Duncan Menads (Member # 381) on February 04, 2005, 11:51 AM:
 
Leonard, your obvious frustration sounds very similar to Steve Craig when he talks about the merits of the WT!
 

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Posted by Duncan Menads (Member # 381) on February 04, 2005, 11:55 AM:
 
Anyone have anything intelligent to say about wattage or candlepower?

If 1 million candlepower is good, is 1.5 better? Is 2 million even better? Or does just a plain old 500K setup with diffusing edges work well without a red lens at all?

Do you have some form of measurement for the darkening (?) of a red lens? And if so, what is the best?

Why doesn't pink work as well as clear when you flip from red? Or yellow, or pale blue, or muted purple?
 

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Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on February 04, 2005, 12:23 PM:
 
Leonard, your coment about three decades is modest to say the least...60s...70s....80s...90s and 2000. sounds more like four decades to me and we haven't learned a damn thing? That's why I'm staying out of this, it's hard to talk to a wall. But, I'm not going to leave you out here with all these wolves without helping you. You hold the light and I'll do the shooting ok lol
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 04, 2005, 02:09 PM:
 
My obvious frustration shows? And yet, this drones on and on, and it's like trying to learn Greek, while looking through a mirror.

For those that think they have the solution, I have no intention of converting you. The comment that has put a buzz in the bonnet is when I finally suggest that you fellas just don't get it, when you say you don't need it. It's okay for the disbelievers to say they don't need it, (flippers) but if I state that "they" don't get it, now "I'm" being impertinent.

As was said a whole page back, forget it and continue to use your own methods.

One thing, as far as Buker and his pal; they can get along in that type of cover quite nicely with a red light and a rheostat. They are not hunting variable terrain that we see further west, and probably don't have the need to illuminate an animal at several hundred yards, very often. This is why I have several lights, and none of them is a flipper light. Same old story, select the proper golf club....or light, as the case may be.

Also, I have provided more than enough explanation so that anyone can construct a flipper light, if they see the advantage. For me, I started using dual lights so long ago, and they have their own special advantages, so that I am willing to accept the trade off, which is increased weight. But, there are solutions to that, as well.

Krusty, you aren't going to build a rocket ship, blind and handcuffed. There is only one way to understand the objective, or the problem. Until you arrive at the point where you see the limitations of your equipment, you will never understand the solution. I promise you, based on your words and pictures, you don't get it and I am not able to explain further, short of personal demonstration.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on February 04, 2005, 02:28 PM:
 
Ok, I have some records of some hunts the stupid California Flipper light hunters Competed on. Keep in mind coyotes are 9 points, bobcats are 12 points, gray fox are 5 points and badgers are 9 points, No lions were brought back on these hunts. Most of the animals brought back are coyotes, probably 85 to 90%....

1979
1st place...Ken Miller/Jerry Burns 333 points
2nd place...Jim Terry, Don Henderson, Bob Menzhuber 319 points
3rd place...Dave Terry, Yasu Harrison, Dick Harrigan 184 points

1980
1st place...Skip Christiansen, Bruce Dodd, Jim Terry 409 points
2nd place...Steve & Ginny Sundeen 252 points
3rd place...Ken Miller, Gerry Burns...230 points

409 points was a record for years, Some OLD guy named Rick Orelli checked in 425 points.

Now show me a club full of new modern night hunters with new modern lights, new modern rifles, new modern calls, new modern trucks do better, it ain't gonna happen. Numbers prove nothing RIGHT? Now think real hard and come back with some BS statement.....I didn't want to get back in this but since I did, I'll jump with both feet lol.

[ February 04, 2005, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: onecoyote ]
 

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Posted by Hodgen (Member # 180) on February 04, 2005, 02:57 PM:
 
Although I like flipper lights and think they are a good tool to use. I am not sure records from days gone by really mean much Danny.

25 years ago I was catching trophy pickerel and muskie in the river by my house. Since then the river has died from pollution and killed most the game fish, it cleaned itself back up, and is now one of the best trout locations in Pennsylvania.

25 years ago I was shooting ringneck pheasants around here like they were chickens. If it took you more than an hour to kill 2 you were considered a boob. Today you can walk your ass off, and if you killed 2 wild birds in a season you have done the impossible.

25 years ago, killing a whitetail was an accomplishment. Today if your not killing 3-4 in a season your looked upon as not doing your job for conservation.

It all runs in cycles with both highs and lows.

But I still like flipper lights.

[ February 04, 2005, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: Hodgen ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 04, 2005, 02:58 PM:
 
Danny, did you know that Rick uses a superposed light? Did you know that Miller and Burns use a superposed light, and so do the Sundeens? All the San Gabriel guys have been using dual lights forever.

Which is not to say they are better, necessarily. Actually, I think they are, because of the wide fog light. As you know, if you are using a dark filter on a tight spotlight, you have to move the beam around a lot more than with the flat fog element. The main point is, that you have an instantly available bright light, whether it is red to white, with a different intensity; or the way you do it, red to amber, same intensity, same bulb. The distinctions are lost on these guys, so it's just between us.

You know, when I got to Africa, Lochi had a crude flipper light. The next night, I wired up a plug adapter, fortunatly I had brought my dual light, and we used it for the next twelve nights.

This subject does not lend itself to the printed page, so I want to invite all out member with an interest in third generation hunting lights to get to Danny's upcoming hunt where he will demo what we are talking about.....what! you don't have one? Oh geeze!

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on February 04, 2005, 05:04 PM:
 

quote:

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This subject does not lend itself to the printed page, so I want to invite all out member with an interest in third generation hunting lights to get to Danny's upcoming hunt where he will demo what we are talking about.....what! you don't have one? Oh geeze!

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